Your View On 'Unlimited' Hosting?

[Collabora]

I am actually fascinated with this discussion. I've been following the industry for God knows how long and I have never seen an explanations of "unlimited" put quite in those terms of separating "quotas" from "hardware". I have seriously NEVER thought of it that way and it is somewhat of an eye-opener for me.

You didn't think we were really trying to sell infinite hard drives did you.

I offered up a little exercise to the critics so they can see unlimited with their own eyes. On your windows computer right click on C drive then Properties. Click on Quota tab. Click on show Quota Settings. What do you see? I have uploaded screen shots. Do you see the relationship between unlimited and quotas?

So you now see unlimited existing in Windows. Windows refers to it as "No Limit." This isn't new. In Linux unlimited exists when Quota = 0

"Limited" hosts have been doing this for years with email, databases, etc by removing the traditional quota. Wouldn't unlimited email, databases, and sites require unlimited space otherwise?

A hosting plan is simply a basket of hosting resources defined and limited by quota. The quota is created by the host. Remove the quota (the limit) from any one of those resources and that resource is now unlimited.

I have answered all of your other points in previous posts. Some are obfuscated by straw-men, red herrings, false analogies and other fallacious arguments and may be difficult to sort through

 

[bunnykins]

When I fist saw unlimited I only thought of it as not having a limit on the amount of space my site could use on the server not infinite. Nothing I have said so far should suggest that. However I have seen many articles and posts by people about how you could never have unlimited space on a server as the hard drive is limited. If I remember correctly even everity stated that in the article they used to have on their site.

That does not change my personal experience. Several, maybe not all but enough of the unlimted put to many customers on one server causing slow downs or low cpu limits.

 

[Collabora]

That does not change my personal experience. Several, maybe not all but enough of the unlimted put to many customers on one server causing slow downs or low cpu limits.

No one is doubting your personal experience. But the hosting plan is not the cause of slow servers. Too many sites on a server and poor management are the #1 causes (as you noted). Servers cannot read hosting plans and don't change their speed with a change in a bullet point in hosting plan. For example, if your host changed their hosting plan to include unlimited disk quota right now, the server will still have the same sites running the same way, right now.

The same thing that causes the slowness you experienced causes slowness in limited hosts also. Using your logic, if someone had a crappy limited host then went to a decent unlimited host they could claim: I hate those limited hosts -- they are so darn slow compared to unlimited hosts. But we know that correlation is not causation

In any case, I gave you a 10 GB disk quota in my attachment above just so you would think your site will run faster than if I gave you unlimited.

 

[bunnykins]

Oh you really twisted my words up didn't you. The slowness issue is something that could and probably is seen on all hosts no matter what their plans are. However lots of the unlimited hosts overload their servers causing the slowness. I am willing to bet some do not but you have to admit it is easier to overload a server if you put no limits then if you put limits.

 

[easyhostmedia]

We never offered or offer unlimited disc or bandwidth. We always make sure our server are never overloaded as once a servers disc space reaches approx. 70% we lock down that server, so no more host accounts can be created, this helps as making sure the server is no overcrowded and overloaded. Yes disc space is only part of the elements, but because their is 30% of space (approx. 50GB) this also helps with other resources and inodes

 

[bunnykins]

I think a lot of hosts do that. I remember one host who said they put a set number of accounts on a server. 50 for semi dedicated and 100 for shared servers. Although I guess even with that you could overload a server.

 

[easyhostmedia]

I think a lot of hosts do that. I remember one host who said they put a set number of accounts on a server. 50 for semi dedicated and 100 for shared servers. Although I guess even with that you could overload a server.

I dont go off how many account i let on the server, i go off percentages.

if 3 sites on the server took it to 70% the server would be locked.
if 100 sites on the server took it to 70% the server would be locked.

although if it was option 1 i would upsell them clients a VPS.

 

[bunnykins]

That is probably a good idea. i know a local host that says they have 1000 sites on one server. I know that most of their hosted sites are static though.

 

[Alex - A2 Hosting]

That is probably a good idea. i know a local host that says they have 1000 sites on one server. I know that most of their hosted sites are static though.

Wow that's quite a lot . How do you know the majority are static websites? I guess that's very good business for them though not something I'd like to do personally.

 

[Collabora]

Wow that's quite a lot . How do you know the majority are static websites? I guess that's very good business for them though not something I'd like to do personally.

On a well managed server with email and databases on their own servers its (technically) easy to do.

 

[bunnykins]

Wow that's quite a lot . How do you know the majority are static websites? I guess that's very good business for them though not something I'd like to do personally.

I have had to set up email for their customers before. So I was given access to their plesk and I took a look around.

 

[Sidular]

Sorry for not replying back for a while. Kind of took slight offence when easyhostmedia reported and blocked me earlier this week, and simply wasn't in the mood to respond back with any kind of information relating to the subject.

Anyways, now that I've put that behind me, I have another question for you guys relating to 'unlimited' hosting. (intended to be answered by those who are against the unlimited host, rather than those who are pro-unlimited)

What must the unlimited host change to attract your general attention, and/or possible business?

Unlimited hosting isn't going to go away. So, how can we make it a more acceptable standard within this industry? Essentially, what must they do to change your general view of their unlimited services?

Again, I apologize for not being active within my own thread. Hopefully that can change.

 

[Collabora]

^^^The irony is that such a requirement may be necessary because of the myths, misinformation and FUD the limited hosts propagate.

Prediction: One demand will be to state your "hidden limits" at the Hosting Plan; and they will exempt themselves from having to state theirs (they are the same ones!) and be able keep them "hidden." Or they will want you to remove them completely in order to accommodate sites that rightly belong on their own dedicated server, while they are allowed to keep using same "hidden limits" to prevent abuse of their server.

 

[bunnykins]

I don't think there is any thing an unlimited host could do to get me to sign up. Even if they did state inode limits up front the chances are low for me to sign up.

Although being friendly on sites like this could help your chances of me signing up. The only reason I even say that is because of arvixe.com. Which has actually been friendly so far.

However they have also been recommended as the new official host for ocportal. Although I am thinking that might be just some affiliate thing. Unlike the last official host.

Although thing that could is seeing positive reviews on sites like this.

 

[Collabora]

Just about all the limited premium hosts I've seen have inode limits. Hawkhost, Stablehost, Knownhost come to mind. Togglebox and UnixGuru also have inode limits. Someone using a million files in their directory can really affect server performance. It doesn't really have anything to do with limited/unlimited disk quota.

Anyway, all you limited hosts don't forget to answer Sidular's question above

 

[bunnykins]

Just talked to Hawkhost, their live chat sales person said no inode limit.
Stablehost says:
Hello there
yes we do, we have a 100K inode limit which will prevent our system to backup your account
and 250K inode as a hard limit

 

[Collabora]

This might actually be the very first time when I am open to the idea of starting to think differently of "unlimited" resources in the scope of the hosting industry. While I understand the concept (I think), I am still restrained by a thought that a lot more shops that offer unlimited, offer it without any real understanding of it, nor without any sort of operational knowledge, and are only offering "unlimited" because it is what sells plans, so they consider it to be nothing more than a marketing keyword that potential clients want to hear.

But isn't this also true of limited hosts? I've come across a lot of hosts on forums that have no real understanding of hosting beyond the options in cpanel. Even less who have any understanding of servers outside of hosting.

One more point. Unlimited hosting, while can be managed properly, simply doesn't inspire the confidence that a provider won't pull the plug on a site for other reasons that are a lot more foreign to me (server loads, RAM, CPU, etc etc)....I would very much prefer to know the exact limitations of what I am getting

Again those reasons are the same ones the limited hosts use to pull the plug on a site before they use their promised quota. They call that protecting the server from abuse. Why is it if the same site was on the same server but on an unlimited plan it becomes a problem?

And does customer really know the exact limitations when the customer is prohibited from using the stated limits? Do they really (technically)know anyway? Customer may purchase a 3 GB plan and a few months later need 3.5 GB (maybe because the "unlimited email" offered by limited host used up web space). In the limited world the user would get suspended until he upgraded to a bigger plan. In the unlimited world his site keeps running without skipping a beat.

This is the real one and only difference between limited and unlimited hosting plans -- one requires step-wise upgrading to ever larger plans, one does not.

The problem with the critics of unlimited is they don't argue fairly. When proposing scenarios to refute the claims of unlimited they use web sites that would never be found on their server (or any other shared server). And then they accuse unlimited hosts of not revealing the "hidden limits" that keep these imaginary sites off the server, when at the same time they use the same "hidden limits" for the same purposes.

 

[Collabora]

They don't stop. After careful explanation and with screenshots, there are still those that refuse to learn or are incapable of grasping some of the most fundamental concepts of server management, in this case, namely quota policies.

To wit: We have this post by one of the readers of this thread continuing his mission to misinform the unwary about the operations of other hosts for the purposes of increasing his own profits: http://www.hostingdiscussion.com/167498-post9.html. Apparently that which he does not understand cannot exist.

 

[easyhostmedia]

They don't stop. After careful explanation and with screenshots, there are still those that refuse to learn or are incapable of grasping some of the most fundamental concepts of server management, in this case, namely quota policies.

To wit: We have this post by one of the readers of this thread continuing his mission to misinform the unwary about the operations of other hosts for the purposes of increasing his own profits: http://www.hostingdiscussion.com/167498-post9.html. Apparently that which he does not understand cannot exist.

anyone knows that if a disk has 500GB of SPACE then you cant use anymore that 500GB of space on the disc, so that disc has a 500GB LIMIT.

lets explain it in another way, you take your car to a service station to fill it up, the car has a 20 ltr tank, so what happens when the 20 ltr LIMIT is reached, the fuel will overflow as its reached its LIMIT.

 

[Sidular]

anyone knows that if a disk has 500GB of SPACE then you cant use anymore that 500GB of space on the disc, so that disc has a 500GB LIMIT.

lets explain it in another way, you take your car to a service station to fill it up, the car has a 20 ltr tank, so what happens when the 20 ltr LIMIT is reached, the fuel will overflow as its reached its LIMIT.

I kindly direct you to page 4 of this thread, where an almost identical conversation / comparison has already taken place.