Uptime Guarantee - Good or Bad Idea?

[Collabora]

but you state unlimited plans, but in the same statement state limits, so if you state limits then you are not offering unlimited

No, because the thing that I am limiting is not what is stated in hosting plan as unlimited. You are inventing a plan that I am not using. Even when I look at the disk quota in OS for a particular user it says "No Limit" which is same meaning I am using for Unlimited.

If you have access to and are able to manage your server you can see this for yourself. If you don't know how to do that without a control panel, let me know, I'll help you out. You can even do this at your windows pc under disk managent.

 

[Artashes]

And to answer your question directly, you would not be allowed on my plan and you would not pay for a service you did not receive (namely archiving your video files on the web hosting server)

Thank you for addressing the question directly, appreciate that. I am familiar with the fair usage wording a lot of hosting companies use.

In my case, however, you cannot really call it archiving because I would use the files. These are the feature films, commercials and special multimedia content that were created for clients that need access to them, as well as colleagues because we live notes/edits and have discussion on them - behind password-protected walls. So as I mentioned, minimal CPU usage.

So is it a small business? Yes, it is.
Can we host on a small business plan of yours giving us the freedom of unlimited diskpace? Nope.

Do you see how frustrating it can be for a consumer when a provider cannot deliver on a promise? Wouldn't it be a lot easier to assign a limit to plans to not even having to explain some customers why they cannot host on a plan, or having to deal with anger and frustration down the road?

 

[Collabora]

In my case, however, you cannot really call it archiving because I would use the files. These are the feature films, commercials and special multimedia content that were created for clients that need access to them, as well as colleagues because we live notes/edits and have discussion on them - behind password-protected walls. So as I mentioned, minimal CPU usage.

So is it a small business? Yes, it is.
Can we host on a small business plan of yours giving us the freedom of unlimited diskpace? Nope.

They may not be called archives, but the point was they are not files that support your web site, per se. You may be linking to them from a web page but they are not part of the site. By "Web Hosting" I really mean web hosting. This is the purposing concept.

Do you see how frustrating it can be for a consumer when a provider cannot deliver on a promise?

That is a loaded question. I am not promising anything I cannot deliver. In the immediate case, I am not offering file storage, just web hosting. I think they are two different products. Unlimited web hosting quota is not the same thing as a Mozy or an Akamai. In all my years I have never seen a site suitable for a shared hostiing environment go over a few gigs (and a lot of that are old files that have been replaced but still on server)

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to assign a limit to plans to not even having to explain some customers why they cannot host on a plan, or having to deal with anger and frustration down the road?

The only anger and frustration I have encountered is from the critics. There is more confusion and frustration from all the "normal" customers beseiged by a multitude of multi-tiered quota based plans. My purpose is to end that confusion.

I believe a single plan where artificial quotas are absent simplify things -- at least for sites that are suitable for a shared hosting plan. If someone mistakenly believes that a shared hosting plan, with out quota limits, can be a substitute for a vps or dedicated server all I can do is apologize for their confusion and not take their money (unless they purchase a vps or dedicated server, of course).

With the price of VPSes today and cloud hosting (unlimited on the installment plan), the mutli-tiered quota-based plan is obsolete, and the sooner hosts get on board with that the better their future will be.

 

[Artashes]

They may not be called archives, but the point was they are not files that support your web site, per se. You may be linking to them from a web page but they are not part of the site. By "Web Hosting" I really mean web hosting. This is the purposing concept.

When you have to check your email or a bank statement, you go to a respective website like Gmail or your bank's page, enter username and password to get access to the information you need.

How is my business different? A client/staff logins to work with our content. If that is not web hosting, I don't know what is. What it sounds like is that you are unable to provide the hosting infrastructure to my small business.


(I am not saying that you can't - I am sure you can point me to a dedicated/custom solution. But what I am saying is that once you offer "unlimited", you immediately have to stipulate a lot more things and explain yourself on what kind of small businesses are qualified to be hosted by you and what kind of businesses aren't. To a consumer that doesn't understand (and doesn't want to understand) the technical infrastructure of this business, all I see is that "unlimited" resources are offered for my business to host a website.)

 

[Collabora]

When you have to check your email or a bank statement, you go to a respective website like Gmail or your bank's page, enter username and password to get access to the information you need.

How is my business different? A client/staff logins to work with our content. If that is not web hosting, I don't know what is. What it sounds like is that you are unable to provide the hosting infrastructure to my small business.

Correct, not within a shared hosting environment. However, the only "web" is the authentication page. Just because the actual site grants permission to the files does not mean the files are part of the site. You can upload x-cart and with a few mb of web files grant access to many TBs of software (via purchase) or whatever. But the software-for-download is not part of the site.

But what I am saying is that once you offer "unlimited", you immediately have to stipulate a lot more things and explain yourself on what kind of small businesses are qualified to be hosted by you and what kind of businesses aren't. To a consumer that doesn't understand (and doesn't want to understand) the technical infrastructure of this business, all I see is that "unlimited" resources are offered for my business to host a website.)

I don't believe I have the burden of explaining this to thousands of customers, with whom your example does not apply, on the miniscule chance that one of them might be just like your example.

Why? Take the traditional host with a plan that offers unlimited email, databases and sites (which requires unlimited disk space -- which same host might claim does not exist :rolleyes2) on a small quota of disk space, say 3gb. Let's say you sign up for something like that and before you build a site all your employees use up the 3gb with email. Why can that be called unlimited email? Moreover, there is no more space left for a website. I think you will have an angry customer, even more so than one of mine.

The problem here is "disk aggregation." Of the thousands of hosts offering these kind of plans I have never seen one explain disk aggregation. Why is there no burden of explanation here? Probably because its rarely an issue -- just like in my case.

We can all invent a scenarios that can make any hosting plan unworkable.

 

[Collabora]

....what I am saying is that once you offer "unlimited", you immediately have to stipulate a lot more things and explain yourself...

Although I don't believe I have any more of a teaching burden than the "limited" host that offers unlimited sites, unlimited databases and unlimited email, I have added a statement which addresses the "purposing" factor more and covers your scenario. It mentions that sites whose primary purpose is to utilize disk space or bandwidth are not allowed.

 

[easyhostmedia]

Why? Take the traditional host with a plan that offers unlimited email, databases and sites (which requires unlimited disk space -- which same host might claim does not exist :rolleyes2) on a small quota of disk space, say 3gb. Let's say you sign up for something like that and before you build a site all your employees use up the 3gb with email. Why can that be called unlimited email? Moreover, there is no more space left for a website. I think you will have an angry customer, even more so than one of mine.

a host can offer unlimited sites/emails/databases etc. and still have full control.

yes all our plans offer unlimited emails/databases etc. but how we work this is each plan is initially given a limited amount of these resources, but if the client requires extra then all they need to do is submit a support ticket and we would give him extra without them incurring any extra costs. This way also lets us know if it would be more benificial to the client to have them migrated over to one of our other servers or to leave them where they are. It also lets us know if a client would be better on their own VPS ( which we have sold some clients VPS running our servers this way). this way has worked for us in the last 8 years so I dont see any reason to change this.

 

[Collabora]

a host can offer unlimited sites/emails/databases etc.

I have nothing against this offer.

yes all our plans offer unlimited emails/databases etc. but how we work this is each plan is initially given a limited amount of these resources, but if the client requires extra then all they need to do is submit a support ticket and we would give him extra without them incurring any extra costs.

This way also lets us know if it would be more benificial to the client to have them migrated over to one of our other servers or to leave them where they are. It also lets us know if a client would be better on their own VPS

OK, but why is this ok with email space, database space, etc but not with web site space? (in my plan I don't offer unlimited email). What is holding you back from offering a single plan of average size and cost and allowing customer to increase web site space in the same fashion?

 

[easyhostmedia]

OK, but why is this ok with email space, database space, etc but not with web site space? (in my plan I don't offer unlimited email).

simple in web hosting even with dedicated servers it is the space and bandwidth that costs (more so bandwidth)

What is holding you back from offering a single plan of average size and cost and allowing customer to increase web site space in the same fashion?

customers can increase their space/bandwidth from their client areas if they require.

when i started out 11 years ago i did start off offering unlimited all in plans, but i found customers did not want these with unlimited spoace/bandwidth, also offering this can bring abusers the same as offering free plans.

we genuione hosts have to try and compete and clear up the mess from the ebay kiddie hosts offering annual unlimited pans for $3 a year.

 

[Blue]

Zero difference. Unlimited is not an honest offer whether it's transfer, disk or any addon.

 

[Collabora]

I ignored your previous rude if not libelous post, but since you posted another one I must respond.

Zero difference. Unlimited is not an honest offer whether it's transfer, disk or any addon.

On some of your plans you offer:

unlimited sites
unlimited databases
unlimited email

which would require unlimited disk space and transfer. Regarding my plan you accused me of lying:

If you offer unlimited disk space you are a liar. Pure and simple.

Does that make you a self-admitted liar?

Don't even go there with a "its not unlimited, its unmetered." Unmetered is unlimited. As a matter of fact, you have declared after I defined unlimited in the context of my hosting plan:

You can argue semantics and "marketing" schemes till the cows come home but it does not change the fact you are lying.

Don't interpret a gap in your knowledge as expertise. Take care of your own backyard before you start calling me and other hosts dishonest and liars, buddy.

 

[euro-space]

"unlimited domains" could be considered as a good deal, but not a disk space or bandwidth.

 

[easyhostmedia]

if you read any posts by Collabora it looks as if he just wants to start an argument.

our business model works for us (http://www.hostingdiscussion.com/cu...ime-guarantee-good-bad-idea-6.html#post159506)

 

[Collabora]

"unlimited domains" could be considered as a good deal, but not a disk space or bandwidth.

Unlimited domains (sites) requires unlimited disk space -- even if just parked. There is also a file-system limit. Add unlimited email and databases to that and what do you got? So you can't be against unlimited and offer unlimited at the same time. Unless your unlimited isn't really unlimited..... :shaky:

 

[easyhostmedia]

Unlimited domains (sites) requires unlimited disk space

wrong. you can add 1,000,000 domains on your server and not use 1MB of space as you can add them and not even park them or host sites on the domains.

 

[Collabora]

wrong. you can add 1,000,000 domains on your server and not use 1MB of space as you can add them and not even park them or host sites on the domains.

The configuration files alone will use more space than that, not to mention the 1,000,000 park pages. Plus you have the inherent limits of the file system. It may not even allow the creation of 1,000,000 sites. Besides, 1,000,000 is not unlimited, unless you mean unlimited=more than enough.

Moreover, this assumes customer won't get kicked off server for running a script or abuse to accomplish it way before he is finished -- maybe after the 100th site? haha

My point being: the objections to unlimited apply to all unlimited hosting resources; and what makes unlimited email, etc unlimited also makes web site space unlimited, namely the absence of quota. Any host that bashes a "unlimited" host while offering unlimited themselves is bashing himself/herself also.

 

[easyhostmedia]

It may not even allow the creation of 1,000,000 sites.

who says 1,000,000 sites you can add domains without creating sites.

look at my business model http://www.hostingdiscussion.com/cu...ime-guarantee-good-bad-idea-6.html#post159506 which has worked for us for several years

 

[samirj09]

An uptime guarantee, provides clients with a realistic time that you are expected to be up. Great in my opinion.

 

[Blue]

Definition of a liar: One who tells lies.
Definition of unlimited: Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent.

You are telling lies therefore you are a liar. There's no way around it.
Now, you can scream libel all you like. Go ahead, take me to court. Good luck with that. We'll see who they side with.

Perhaps English is not your native language and you are unable to comprehend the difference between unlimited and unmetered but the courts can.

They may be interested in you claiming I offer unlimited on my site when I clearly do not. Just another lie.

I ignored your previous rude if not libelous post, but since you posted another one I must respond.



On some of your plans you offer:

unlimited sites
unlimited databases
unlimited email

which would require unlimited disk space and transfer. Regarding my plan you accused me of lying:



Does that make you a self-admitted liar?

Don't even go there with a "its not unlimited, its unmetered." Unmetered is unlimited. As a matter of fact, you have declared after I defined unlimited in the context of my hosting plan:



Don't interpret a gap in your knowledge as expertise. Take care of your own backyard before you start calling me and other hosts dishonest and liars, buddy.

 

[Collabora]

Definition of unlimited: Not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity.

Exactly. Now you are learning. When the restriction is an artificial quota created by the provider, as found in such hosting resources as email accounts, databases, sites/domains and even web space we call those things unlimited when that quota restriction is removed. That is how operating systems work - both linux and windows. And guess what? Its the same whether you have a 1GB drive or a 1TB drive. You should learn about OSes and quota policies too since you are in the hosting business