Do you outsource support?

We outsource our support, but we don't really need to. We don't get a lot of support tickets, because everything "just works".
That said, it's a good feeling to have that if for whatever reason a server goes down, there's someone there to answer support emails when you have your head buried in your pillow at 3am.

It's also well invested marketing money. If you can advertise 24/7 support (and actually HAVE 24/7 support), people are more likely to sign up with you.
 
I was a bit sceptical about replying to this thread specially because we are not a host and provide outsourcing services ourselves. However, as this is just a discussion I thought I should put our experiences forward.

I kind of agree with everyone on the following points:
  • Outsourcing is not at times 100% transparent which most of you have pointed out.
  • Outsourcing can affect your business in a positive or negative way.
  • Outsourcing is also not the perfect solution for business.

Over the years we have worked with many small/medium and large companies(as large as Google) and noted a few things as below:

  • While cost saving is primary reason for outsourcing for most companies, that is not the only reason to do it.
  • We worked on a large project with Google providing them support services. Why? Could google not afford in-house staff? No. Google just did not want to do it as hosting technical support was not their area of expertise. That is something that can happen with any other company who wants to concentrate of their core business area. We work with Big web development companies who are happy to outsource their hosting infrastructure management completely because maintaining 24x7 staff in house is neither their business domain not priority.
  • A common thought about outsourced support is that they can only handle Level I "we have escalated your issue" types of tickets. I completely disagree with this simply due to the fact that we get more clients looking for skilled technicians to "fix" their issues rather than template monkeys. So yes, challenge your provider with really technical issues and good company will pass with flying colors. So its about choosing the "right provider"
  • I have been in the industry for over 12+ years now and have worked with some of the big and best names in the Industry. To name a few, almost all big and successful hosting companies have used outsourced support services during their growing times. Many of them still continue to do so. For these companies, Outsourcing has been a boon.
  • Most people say that using in-house staff is risk-free. However, almost every week we get atleast one task where in customer doubts a back door being planted by one of the ex-employees. There are many big companies who face similar issues and news about these issues is all over google.
  • I have always been amazed with "Indian" side of things when it comes to the outsourcing business. Outsourcing has been tagged as Indian by people who have the illusion that any work going to India is outsourcing. The facts are a bit different. India is indeed a big IT hub. Every major global IT giant has a considerable work force in India. Apart from that every major IT giant has considerable Indian origin people as part of their top leadership. Do we call that outsourcing? If yes, the microsoft and google are also outsourcing in today's world and this statement would indeed sound very ironic. I believe it is just the skills that are getting paid in this era of globalization.
  • Any company or business from anywhere in the world today wants to grow. Growth can only come from acquisition of new clients i.e addition of business and cutting down costs. Outsourcing business is no exception to this. Like any host who grows beyond a certain level opts for in-house support and ignores the cost-cutting factor, even outsourcing companies can use the same formula and give the best skill sets if they see sustained business flow .

Like every other man made service, Outsourcing does indeed have its own merits and de-merits. I do still believe that its leads more to business growth for most companies than anything else due to the cost-effective nature of the services.
 
Hosting42 said:
Hello,

As a small-business and a Hosting Company we have found it hard to survive in the Web Hosting industry. In order for us to compete with leading brands. We felt it was necessary to step up our game and offer 24x7x365 Support. Although as a small business this can be a high overhead and unrealistic.

We were just curious to if you outsource your support to keep overhead affordable or how do you respond to this issue of supporting clients?

Thank you.
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have you tried end user support i think that's better than out-source support because whoever is the head user may possibly own the data center/network
 
I just want to comment a little on this part:

tecsys said:
[*]I have always been amazed with "Indian" side of things when it comes to the outsourcing business. Outsourcing has been tagged as Indian by people who have the illusion that any work going to India is outsourcing. The facts are a bit different. India is indeed a big IT hub. Every major global IT giant has a considerable work force in India. Apart from that every major IT giant has considerable Indian origin people as part of their top leadership. Do we call that outsourcing? If yes, the microsoft and google are also outsourcing in today's world and this statement would indeed sound very ironic. I believe it is just the skills that are getting paid in this era of globalization.
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I think you cannot escape such generalizations. They have always existed and people love to generalize things. Canadians are famous for being very polite - but do you think they are ALL polite? Russians are famous for drinking excessive amounts of vodka but do you think they are all drunks and fight with bears?

Same is with Indians and IT services. Sure, there are geniuses like Amit Singh from Google or Neil Patel, there are a lot of indians who excel in computers but the general fact is that MOST of the services coming from indian freelancers and companies are often very cheap and low quality. That goes out to all areas. Content writers who will spin and give you low quality and non-unique gramatically incorrect content. Webmasters who claim to be 10+ years in business and don't know jack about a cPanel. SEO gurus who turn to forums to solve their simple client issues... I have seen all of those and plenty more.

So I believe its certainly no negativity to a certain race or heritage. Its not something that other people like to do to undermine the quality of service just because it comes from a certain geolocation. It is just the general percentage of the quality services compared to all the services provided all around.

Apart from that I think you made a great post and presented valuable points that were overlooked so far in the thread :rolleyes2
 
Hi,
Very informative discussion by all participants, we at our company have our own support department, I think outsourcing can delay the response time and will cause customer dissatisfaction. further, it wont be good idea to provide top notch support as support might not have the exact detail to resolve issues or responding to other queries
 
Rado_Ch said:
I just want to comment a little on this part:



I think you cannot escape such generalizations. They have always existed and people love to generalize things. Canadians are famous for being very polite - but do you think they are ALL polite? Russians are famous for drinking excessive amounts of vodka but do you think they are all drunks and fight with bears?

Same is with Indians and IT services. Sure, there are geniuses like Amit Singh from Google or Neil Patel, there are a lot of indians who excel in computers but the general fact is that MOST of the services coming from indian freelancers and companies are often very cheap and low quality. That goes out to all areas. Content writers who will spin and give you low quality and non-unique gramatically incorrect content. Webmasters who claim to be 10+ years in business and don't know jack about a cPanel. SEO gurus who turn to forums to solve their simple client issues... I have seen all of those and plenty more.

So I believe its certainly no negativity to a certain race or heritage. Its not something that other people like to do to undermine the quality of service just because it comes from a certain geolocation. It is just the general percentage of the quality services compared to all the services provided all around.

Apart from that I think you made a great post and presented valuable points that were overlooked so far in the thread :rolleyes2
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I understand your point of view. However, you mentioned something that explains reality more than what I could have written in my own words. You mentioned "very cheap and low quality" as adjectives to the general work that happens from India. However, I believe this is a global phenomenon. Where things are cheap, the quality is low. There have always been, there are and there will always be cheap cars, phones, clothes , shoes and so there would be services. There exists a famous statement which says "What you pay for is what you get" which proves itself here.

We are all consumers of some kind and most of us are fascinated by cars. The automobile market has $12k cars on offer as well as cars costing $300k+. Now its obvious, the $12k car won't be as comfortable as the $300k one. If I buy the $12k car and expect it to perform and give me comforts of the $300k one, I am sure most of you would call me a crazy person. But $12k cars exist because there are buyers for them but we ideally do not blame the manufacturers for the $12k car to be not like the $300k car because we know the cost we have paid cannot cover the goodies of a $300k car.

The outsourcing market is somewhat like the automotive market, there are cheap service providers because there are takers. Its my 13th year in the hosting industry and I would still have no answer if someone asks me "What to expect for a service provider who offers monthly server management for $15 a month" ? The hourly salary for any lucky unskilled person in most of the countries of the world would be more than $15. How should I expect a person to monitor my server 24x7, work on tickets, talk to the DC, talk to me on live chat for one full month in $15 and yet be 100% reliable and provide top notch quality? Its like asking a $12/year host to provide 100% uptime, 24x7 phone,email,live chat support with a 5 minutes response time.

I understand there are people who provide cheap services but if quality is the preference for the customer, I do not believe these cheap service providers will ever get any business and spoil their countries name globally. So my take on things is that quality services cannot come cheap.
 
tecsys said:
I understand your point of view. However, you mentioned something that explains reality more than what I could have written in my own words. You mentioned "very cheap and low quality" as adjectives to the general work that happens from India. However, I believe this is a global phenomenon. Where things are cheap, the quality is low. There have always been, there are and there will always be cheap cars, phones, clothes , shoes and so there would be services. There exists a famous statement which says "What you pay for is what you get" which proves itself here.

We are all consumers of some kind and most of us are fascinated by cars. The automobile market has $12k cars on offer as well as cars costing $300k+. Now its obvious, the $12k car won't be as comfortable as the $300k one. If I buy the $12k car and expect it to perform and give me comforts of the $300k one, I am sure most of you would call me a crazy person. But $12k cars exist because there are buyers for them but we ideally do not blame the manufacturers for the $12k car to be not like the $300k car because we know the cost we have paid cannot cover the goodies of a $300k car.

The outsourcing market is somewhat like the automotive market, there are cheap service providers because there are takers. Its my 13th year in the hosting industry and I would still have no answer if someone asks me "What to expect for a service provider who offers monthly server management for $15 a month" ? The hourly salary for any lucky unskilled person in most of the countries of the world would be more than $15. How should I expect a person to monitor my server 24x7, work on tickets, talk to the DC, talk to me on live chat for one full month in $15 and yet be 100% reliable and provide top notch quality? Its like asking a $12/year host to provide 100% uptime, 24x7 phone,email,live chat support with a 5 minutes response time.

I understand there are people who provide cheap services but if quality is the preference for the customer, I do not believe these cheap service providers will ever get any business and spoil their countries name globally. So my take on things is that quality services cannot come cheap.
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You hit the nail right on the head there and it totally backs my opinion too. This is something that people continue to refuse to understand - if there isn't a market where people seek services and are prepared to pay with pennies only, there wouldn't be so many people ready to take those pennies doing minimal, low-quality work. Its simple supply and demand really. :rolleyes2

That being said I'd like to escape generalization again and do believe there are still services out there where "low price" does not always mean "low quality". Yes, it mostly means exactly that, but not always. And web hosting is a perfect example. A widely used marketing strategy is to rely on a very cheap introductory price and paying a standard, more expensive price for renewals. There is a simple explanation for that and it lies in the host's confidence of their good quality. Introducing your services at a very affordable rate would mean that you make them more accessible to people. So when they sign up for an year, lets say, they would have the entire 12 months to freely test your services and perks. In this entire year, they have the time to build their trust and loyalty towards your company, so when renewal comes they would feel more inclined to pay more and continue with a quality service. Again, pretty rare occasion but it does happen and I, for one, am always happy to justify our pricing when potential customers ask :rolleyes2
 
Ah yes, the automotive analogy. Goes with just about anything :)

I've had bad experiences with Indian companies, even though I paid a fair price (a PSD 2 HTML conversion at that time). The company was hard to communicate with and the work was average, at best.

Then there's the unsolicited calls from the web development companies that want to offer $8/hour services. Almost every day, I had them on the phone.

Now, I found Bobcares, which is an Amercian/Indian company, and the account manager that was assigned to me is very polite, just like everyone on the support team. Aside from the names, you wouldn't be able to tell if they were from India or the US.
Bobcares is not the cheapest, but I went with the reviews I received from other users. I'm paying a little extra and I think we're getting the service our clients deserve.
 
A generalized statement would be more appropriate when I say that most cheap service providers are forced to hire unskilled staff as they make no margins in their services at all. Because skills don't come cheap. Neither in the US nor in India or anywhere in the world.

@Rado_Ch : I understand that introductory prices are "customer acquisition" gimmicks apply to many businesses around the world. However, with most customers, they do not think the way you are being appreciative to talent here. If I ever tell a customer the renewal price would be higher than the initial price, 90% of the times, it results in loss of the customer. On the other hand, past one year, if a raise has been asked to the customer, most of them look for a different provider. So this peculiar thinking of customers of opting for cheaper services always gives opportunity for small and crap service providers to get business.

A good example referred here is Bobcares. Their advantage is that they have been in the industry when outsourcing providers were scarce and hard to find. So many clients stuck with them even when they had service issues ( as no provider is perfect ). Over the years this helped them to build a client base and now they do not offer services below their expected margins.
In today's world how would any provider get to that level with customers moving on every now and then ? In my very first reply to this thread I mentioned outsourcing providers can only get to that level when they have sustained business flow which is something now a days they do not get.
 
yeah but just level 1 anything that requires server work I do in house. Just a little safer. I will say there is some really good outsourced hosting services now-a-days.
 
We've had many people from India approaching us to outsource our business, but we never agreed to. We stick to Eastern European outsourcing.
 
Medusa said:
We've had many people from India approaching us to outsource our business, but we never agreed to. We stick to Eastern European outsourcing.
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Where in Eastern Europe if its no secret? I am interested as I've worked for several hosting companies that have their support in my country (Bulgaria) and can only say great things about the level of knowledge and customer treatment here :rolleyes2
 
Rado_Ch said:
Where in Eastern Europe if its no secret? I am interested as I've worked for several hosting companies that have their support in my country (Bulgaria) and can only say great things about the level of knowledge and customer treatment here :rolleyes2
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Ukraine. They're still low-cost but more knowledgeable than Americans or Asians.
 
Ew, Indians. If you choose an Indian company then you gonna probably end up with a useless support team which does not even know how to talk properly. I've seen and experienced it ;)

"HOW SIR. . ."
 
Outsourcing of Technical Support is not the best option. If the load is very high with small amount of sales which not able afford to hire own staffs, at this situation, cost of outsource support will be less but full optimization and monitoring is compulsory from owner/own staff side.
 
Medusa said:
Ukraine. They're still low-cost but more knowledgeable than Americans or Asians.
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That doesn't surprise me really as the level of education is still pretty good in Eastern European countries and especially in the new tech fields people see a big opportunity to break the geographical boundaries without leaving their own country. Bulgarians and Eastern Europeans as a whole have a long tradition of outstanding results in Maths, Informational Technologies and Programming (hell, even the inventor of the computer is of Bulgarian descent) so more and more companies come to the realization that they can outsource here for a low cost and with little extra training involved. :rolleyes2
 
We honestly tried is many years ago and found it to be basically a complete joke. We tried a few different companies at the time and overall the incompetence was completely mind blowing.

We hire everyone in house now, albeit most are remote employees, and we will never consider outsourcing support again.
 
areeb said:
Ew, Indians. If you choose an Indian company then you gonna probably end up with a useless support team which does not even know how to talk properly. I've seen and experienced it ;)

"HOW SIR. . ."
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I would say that is an untrue statement. I would I could have the liberty to mention the names of the companies here. But signed NDAs prevent me from doing so. Many top and the big players from the webhosting industry outsource their support operations to India. Reason ?

Cost : Certainly no. They can pay for in-house staff
Bad English : No again, not everyone in India has bad English. Select staff carefully and then you are good.
Then what?
Skills : A big yes, I could name a few companies whose CTOs and Senior Admins are all Indians. So skills are being paid for.

It is all about finding the right provider. Its just like webhosting, providers are not good because they are from the US, their service makes them good and not their origin and it takes many tries for most of us to get the right webhosting provider as well. Every industry has good and bad players. :)
 
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