Sorry, wasn't replying specifically to you. My last message was more of a general statement, than a direct reply.
How do they do it? Unlimited domains and bandwidth
- Thread starter solarenergyhost
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Sorry, wasn't replying specifically to you. My last message was more of a general statement, than a direct reply.
cheapdedicated
New member
No ProblemSorry, wasn't replying specifically to you. My last message was more of a general statement, than a direct reply.
:thumbup:
Actually unlimited hosting is a friend to the so-called ignorant client. Do you think the ignorant client with his/her blog, small biz site, etc., is better served by a myriad of multi-tiered quota-based hosting plans to choose from, or just one single hosting plan without the quota?
And isn't the TOS of the unlimited host about the same as those found among limited hosts? My 50mb wordpress site can just as easily get suspended on a 2GB plan as it can on an unlimited plan for using too much cpu, for example. Why is the exact same thing called "exploitation" on the unlimited plan, but proper server management on the limited plan?
The truth is 99.9% of all websites suitable for a shared hosting environment are less than a couple GBs in size; the rest are less than 5 GB in size. Why "exploit" these customers by selling them plans and features they do not need? (that's a rhetorical question)
As an unlimited host I can tell you that each and every one of my sites can fit into any typical hosting plan found among the limited multi-tiered quota-bases plans offered by the members of this forum -- the same members that make it their mission to destroy the concept of unlimited hosting. Never has any site been suspended for reasons that would not get them suspended at a limited host.
Yet here they are trying to tell me and others we are liars and thieves; inventing bizarre hosting scenarios that never materialize and propagating their own lies in their war against unlimited hosting. They have a vested interest (mostly emotional) in the quota-based system. They are afraid, very afraid. Or maybe its the hosts that are the ignorant ones and not the customers.
...watch out, here they come....
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cheapdedicated
New member
I read you loud. Like I told someone above, I dont think this is a case of lying. Its a case of someone reading "Unlimited" as "Infinite" Its someone getting the impression that Unlimited means you can do anything anyhow as opposed to the core of shared hosting.
Least I am misunderstood, I dont find unlimited services a bad option otherwise we would never offer them ourselves.
There is no evidence here that there are such cases. I think the only ones that claims unlimited is infinite are other limited hosts in forums like these using FUD marketing.
I've never run across a real customer that believes a shared unlimited plan is a substitute for a dedicated server, or truly believed unlimited = infinite hardware. Of all the complaints we see in hosting forums, never have I seen a customer mistakenly complain that they did not get infinite resources listed in hosting plan, for reasons other than what would prevent them from getting 100% of a specified limited resource from a limited host. If they are out there, they are probably one on in a million.
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multiplecloud
New member
They always offer unlimited with some hidden term apply
HometownServers
New member
Your local pub building a webpage has no concept of how much Diskspace or Bandwidth they will be using, so unlimited is appealing. Its one less thing he has to worry about.
I think this should be emphasized.
easyhostmedia
Well-known member
so your only shared plan is unlimited , so you are giving clients more than they need or will use, which is "exploiting" these customers by selling them plans and features they do not need?
I think he was saying that since most shared hosting clients don't use much resources, it makes more sense to offer them a single 'unlimited' plan rather than micromanage an ascending set of disk/bandwidth quotas with incoherent 'limits' that don't even apply to 99% of real world scenarios.
Exploitation occurs when the host succeeds in selling the client certain disk/bandwidth quotas that they will never reach, e.g. they've purchased an expensive plan with higher disk/bandwidth quotas and are using, say, 3% of what has been allocated to them. In this scenario they are paying quite a lot of extra money for unused resources. I think his point was that in order to avoid this kind of exploitation, it makes more sense to offer a 'one size fits all' unlimited plan for a relatively lower price.
Yes, that is exactly what I was saying. Thanks for a great explanation.
MOD NOTE: Post edited to enforce Rule 3.1: Be respectful to other users and avoid personal attacks.
cheapdedicated
New member
Considering your argument that
And your conclusion that
The same can be said of unlimited hosting. If for example you had to charge what appears cheap lets say $8 for an unlimited plan when actually you could offer 4GB at $5 in that case you too are cheating clients by selling them an unlimited plan well knowing they won't need more than 2GB.
Its not true that a host becomes a cheat or not by virtue of the package they are selling being limited or unlimited.
NOTE I am not against unlimited hosting at all
And your conclusion that
The same can be said of unlimited hosting. If for example you had to charge what appears cheap lets say $8 for an unlimited plan when actually you could offer 4GB at $5 in that case you too are cheating clients by selling them an unlimited plan well knowing they won't need more than 2GB.
Its not true that a host becomes a cheat or not by virtue of the package they are selling being limited or unlimited.
NOTE I am not against unlimited hosting at all
That's true. I don't claim to know the best way to do things. I think unlimited plans offer more flexibility most of the time, that's all I meant, but yeah, they can be overpriced too.
Price point is irrelevant. Overcharging is one thing, the hosting plan model is another. Any host can overcharge and be called exploitive by your example
We have to keep in mind that the term "exploitive" was first used here by an author to describe unlimited hosts' hosting plans -- not hosts in general, as I read it.
The gist of the responses to this accusation, as presented by unlimited hosts, would also extend to the limited host that would offer a single limited plan for the price of a 2 or 3 gb plan. What the limited host actually charges for that 2 or 3 gb plan is not the point.
The point here is virtually no one would need a plan more than 5 gb or so, yet these oversized limited plans are actively marketed to those that do not need them. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, just contrasting and responding to the original accusation that unlimited hosts are inherently exploitive (and presumably limited hosts are not)
This sub-thread about "exploitation" illustrates another example of the double-standards and hypocrisy of the anti-unlimited limited host. They are always exempting themselves from the standards they demand of unlimited hosts.
In the middle of all this, we even got the classic:
Those nasty "hidden terms." When limited hosts uses the exact same ones and "hidden" in the exact same way the unlimited host uses them they call it "proper server management." When the unlimited hosts uses them its some sort of evil business practice.
Hypocrisy
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On second thought, I don't really know what you mean by 'well knowing' here. It's rare for a client to know in advance exactly how much resources they will need/use. It's also disingenuous to act as if a host should be omnisciently aware of these numbers in advance. To claim that a host was 'cheating' someone because they somehow magically knew in advance that the client would only use X amount of resources is a bit absurd...
Again, this misses the whole point. In an unlimited plan they would pay the same whether the site used 2 Gb or 20 mb. Its the site itself that determines usage, not the plan. This would be in contrast to a multi-tiered quota based plan where, for example, if the 20 mb user is on a 1 gb plan he would have to upgrade to the higher cost 2 gb plan when the 20mb site grows to 1.1 GB. The same user on an unlimited plan would not have to pay more.
Pricing each plan is a different subject. Consider the limited host with a 3 GB, 5 gb and 10 gb plan for 5, 7 and 9 dollars. If he went to a single unlimited plan with 99.9% of his customers having sites less than 3 gb he may lose money by charging $5 for unlimited plan because some of those sites are in the oversized plans. On the other hand, there may be a marketing advantage to offering the single plan that would attract more customers offsetting the loss mentioned.
So perhaps this host would calculate an average monthly price from all sites and income and use that. Instead of $5/plan he may charge $6.50/plan, for example, and maintain the same income (on average) for the same number of sites).
Hec, he can even offer a single limited 10 gb plan (since he sees all the sites on all his servers are well below 10 gb anyway) for the $6.50/plan.
Either way the customers paying for plan b and plan c would be paying a little less and customers paying for plan a would be paying a little more. What this is not is exploitive
Perhaps I can learn something from you. How do you manage to avoid this with your unlimited alpha reseller plan?
Code:
[B]What you get with this Package?[/B]
-> [B][COLOR="Red"]Super Alpha Reseller Account (Unlimited Plan) from Niceday Hosting[/COLOR][/B]
-> Client Account at Niceday Hosting(Support System)
-> Free Boxbilling Software
-> Reseller Website Integrated with Billing System
-> Free Domain Reseller Account
[B]Hosting Features:[/B]
[B]The Only Features of Niceday Hostings Alpha Reseller Plans:[/B]
-> Unlimited Disk Space
-> Unlimited Bandwidth
-> Unlimited Domains
-> Unlimited Databases
-> Create Master Reseller Accounts
-> Create WHM Reseller Accounts
-> Create cPanel Accounts
-> Free Site Builder (Trendy Flash Builder)
-> Free Domain Reseller Account
-> Softaculous Premium Script Installer
-> RV Skins
-> CloudFlare security & optimization tools
-> Attracta SEO & Marketing Tools
-> CP Extra
-> Hosting Website Templates
-> Free Billing Software (Boxbilling)
-> Advanced DNS Zone Editor
-> Litespeed
-> Host Adult Sites AlsoLooks about the same as any other unlinmited (I think its a little bit better since you offer more than the typical unlimited host). I don't want to exploit anyone. What do you do here to avoid the thing you are accusing me of doing? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Limited hosts also do this, if not directly with inodes, then indirectly. A large number of files will contribute to high disk I/O. In a shared hosting environment, high disk i/o can adversely impact the other sites on the server. Both types of hosts will have something in their SLA/TOS about this.
One of the biggest consumers of inodes is email, especially IMAP accounts. Thus all hosts that provision email on the webserver (that would be all cpanel hosts) has to be careful offering unlimited email. This is one reason I use a dedicated server with limited disk quota for email.
What many people fail to remember is that there is no relation between inode and file size. I can have a 40mb wordpress site with 20,000 inodes and I can have a 4 GB database with 1 inode. Thus its very possible that the little wp site will require more disk resource than the jumbo database.
So you can see that both the limited host and the unlimited host are faced with the exact same problem when it comes to disk i/o....and both use the same solutions to maintain the integrity of the shared hosting environment. And they both "hide" this in their SLA/TOS. To question one is to question the other.
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We were able to offer unlimited plans by limiting the number of clients we place on a single server. (Example: If we have a 32gb ram server, 8 core, 1TB Hard Drive) we add but not limited to 25 clients on this single server. Thus creating enough space for the client to be unlimited. In order for us to know we have enough space for the clients need, we will create space by adding additional hard drives.
As for RAM in a cPanel & WHM environment we found that 25 clients don't even use 15-20% of the capacity.
This would leave us with Bandwidth. All of our servers are equipped with a direct 1gbps network allowing great speeds and bandwidth thus enough to handle 25 clients on each server.
Some clients say Unlimited is impossible; Although we accept the challenge. As we upgrade per the need of the client.
Thank you.
As for RAM in a cPanel & WHM environment we found that 25 clients don't even use 15-20% of the capacity.
This would leave us with Bandwidth. All of our servers are equipped with a direct 1gbps network allowing great speeds and bandwidth thus enough to handle 25 clients on each server.
Some clients say Unlimited is impossible; Although we accept the challenge. As we upgrade per the need of the client.
Thank you.
The problem is, if you place 25 resellers on there, how many sites can they create?
It has to be limited somewhere? Otherwise the server will eventually be too slow as resellers fill up your server.
If you are placing only 25 websites on a server, then I want to know who your co-lo provide is, 'cos it looks like you have a better deal than me!
You should charge what you need to make it viable and sell accounts upto the capacity of the machine and not beyond.
(obviously whilst accounting for some account upgrades)
It has to be limited somewhere? Otherwise the server will eventually be too slow as resellers fill up your server.
If you are placing only 25 websites on a server, then I want to know who your co-lo provide is, 'cos it looks like you have a better deal than me!
You should charge what you need to make it viable and sell accounts upto the capacity of the machine and not beyond.
(obviously whilst accounting for some account upgrades)
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