Your View On 'Unlimited' Hosting?

[Sidular]

and then when describing your problems it was important for you to mention that the host in question was an unlimited host.

So I did find your post typical of anti-unlimited posts

I guess you missed the quotation marks.

Most 'professionals' rightfully assume that nearly all 'unlimited' providers are falsely advertising their capabilities, or that these providers are being run by kids.

That specific paragraph was in reference to how 'professionals' (note the quotations) assume how all unlimited providers falsely advertise their true capabilities, or are simply managed by children under the age of 18.

They are right to assume that, as for the most part, a very large group of these providers are run kids or uninformed persons, and most of them do not properly list their actual server specifications or limitations.

Advertising an unlimited hosting plan as providing an 'unlimited' amount of disk space and bandwidth is similar to stating how this plan does not provide any clear limitations, and that you are able to host 10 or more GB's of data on a single hosting plan. (limitations, in this case, relate to the quota given)
That's a fair assumption, and unless stated otherwise, most standard consumers would not know what the true limitations are.

The small group of providers that clearly disclose their actual server specifications, and take the time to properly document what 'unlimited' truly is, are the providers that deserve to receive some form of respect and recognition from the hosting community. However, because of the much larger group of unprofessional and incapable providers, the 'legit' ones (so to speak) are overshadowed, and the blame and hate is generalized and shared upon every provider that offers any kind of unlimited service.
Then, with the hate of the unlimited host, you have the elitism of the limited host. It seems as though the 'limited' host has made it their goal to inform the general public of the limitations and 'lies' that the unlimited provider is spreading. Although I truly admire and respect the fact that these hosts are trying to educate the general public, they're doing so in a biased and often untrue fashion, and they tend to completely leave out the fact that some unlimited providers are capable of delivering the services that they advertise, and that they are not all in the business to scam or deceive individuals.

Collabora, you've taken the time to properly express what your 'unlimited' plan is capable of providing, and you've also stated how, although rare, you may enforce certain limitations if needed.
That kind of disclosure is what I would consider to be a 'legit' operation, one which does not, in any way, deserve the generalized hate from the industry professionals, as quite simply, you do not fit within their views on what an unlimited provider truly is.

 

[Collabora]

All you can eat is not unlimited though.

Yes it is -- "all-you-can-eat" is an excellent analogy. Using the logic of the anti-unlimited crowd there is no such thing as "all-you-can-eat". You can't stay for all 3 meals for the price of one, you can't take home all the food in kitchen. Thus there is no such thing as "all-you-can-eat."

But that's an ignorant and silly outlook. In the context of a single meal for a single individual, it certainly is "all-you-can-eat" and unlimited. One does not need an infinitely large stomach to make the restaurateur honest.

Similarly, in the context of a personal or small biz website suitable for a shared hosting environment one can remove the artificial quota limit and offer unlimited.

If you changed unlimited to unmetered then the comparison works.

If offering unlimited hosting is a scam then offering unmetered hosting is a slimy scam. Unmetered is used by hosts that want the advantages of offering unlimited but without the negative, but false, connotations perpetrated by you and your ilk.

To take this comparison one step farther. Most unlimited if not all have another limit an inode limit. .

It doesn't matter. Its the disk space quota that is unlimited, not the inode quota. Even limited hosts have inode and other limits that will prevent the customer from using all of their limited allotment.

More hypocrisy

 

[Posilan]

It is the limit imposed by the provider that is unlimited, not the size of the hardware. It is the mere absence of the artificial quota that makes the hosting resource unlimited.

So by this logic, if I deploy a server for hosting with only a 20 GB HDD in it, I can sell "unlimited" hosting on it and the customer shouldn't get annoyed when the home partition for all customers fills up?

We find that most hosts offering "unlimited" hosting are either resellers of another company's shared hosting service (and possibly have no idea what hardware/disk space/network resources are actually available) and/or have been told that their service is "unlimited", or the host is attempting to play the numbers game and hoping that they don't gain an "unprofitable" client.

Steve

 

[Sidular]

So by this logic, if I deploy a server for hosting with only a 20 GB HDD in it, I can sell "unlimited" hosting on it and the customer shouldn't get annoyed when the home partition for all customers fills up?

Can you even buy 20 GB drives anymore?

Anyways, technically, yes. You could sell 'unlimited' hosting on a 20 GB server. The limit isn't with the hardware itself, but rather the quota provided by the plan.

So, although you could technically offer unlimited with just 20 GB, why you would want to is another story entirely.

We find that most hosts offering "unlimited" hosting are either resellers of another company's shared hosting service (and possibly have no idea what hardware/disk space/network resources are actually available) and/or have been told that their service is "unlimited", or the host is attempting to play the numbers game and hoping that they don't gain an "unprofitable" client.

That's the common problem with hosts that offer unlimited services, and is one of the things I've mentioned in an earlier post. They simply do not know what they are doing, and are either generally inexperienced or, unfortunately, are kids under the age of 18.

Regarding the 'number game'? The chance of a demanding customer joining an unlimited network is truly quite low, so the numbers game (as you mentioned) would be fairly easy to play.
By the time a demanding client does come around, the unlimited host would be able to properly provide for the client by moving his/her website over to a less crowded server, assuming of course the host is making a decent amount of profit on their current clients.

 

[bunnykins]

The reason I am what you called Anti-unlimited is because of the inode limit which I feel makes it not unlimited. I am not anti all you can eat because it is all I can eat. I pay for that meal and eat until I am full but that is not unlimited. There is a limit. There is a time limit as you already pointed out. However that is not the same as hosts offering unlimited space.

That and I have had a lot of bad experiences with unlimited hosts.

 

[easyhostmedia]

well as i stated before you cannot really offer unlimited space as if a server has a 500GB hard drive then the limit is 500GB, you cant offer over this unless you add a further HD, but then all you have done is increased the limit.

Its like having a 1lt carton of milk, then the limit in that carton is 1 ltr

 

[Collabora]

So by this logic, if I deploy a server for hosting with only a 20 GB HDD in it, I can sell "unlimited" hosting on it and the customer shouldn't get annoyed when the home partition for all customers fills up?

Absolutely! You understand it completely. Your scenario would be a rare exception because 99.9% of websites (suitable for a shared hosting environment) are under 2gb. Thus, on average, the host could only fit about 10 sites on a server -- or add more drives, or servers. I think that would annoy the host more than the customer!

 

[easyhostmedia]

So by this logic, if I deploy a server for hosting with only a 20 GB HDD in it, I can sell "unlimited" hosting on it and the customer shouldn't get annoyed when the home partition for all customers fills up?

yes, but you will get some customer complain

 

[Collabora]

yes, but you will get some customer complain

See my response above. Why? Customer has no clue how large a drive is by looking at their web site. From the point of view of the customer there is no difference whether that drive is 20GB or 2TB.The only thing that matters here is the quota

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To summarize the real situation here presented by bunnykins and easyhost These recent posts illustrate a standard argument presented by the anti-unlimited crowd: Impose a server management style on the unlimited host that could fail with the limited host as well as the unlimited host and then blame unlimited hosting for its failure.

Once again, more hypocrisy and contradictions from the anti-unlimited crowd

 

[Sidular]

Just here to clear up the air, and make sure we're all sticking with facts, rather than repeating myths and misinformation.


easyhostmedia, an unlimited hosting provider does not provide an infinite amount of disk or web space, nor does it offer a truly infinite hosting experience.
Unlimited is a type of hosting account that does not enforce predetermined disk or bandwidth quotas.
You seem to be under the impression that unlimited equals infinite, which it simply does not.

bunnykins, I of all people understand your distrust of the unlimited hosting provider. (read above)
However, a single situation or dispute with a certain company shouldn't be any kind of indication or representation of how other hosting providers manage their services. To assume that every provider that has and ever will offer unlimited hosting services operates in the same exact way as the one you had an issue with is a rather unrealistic generalization, one that simply is not true. (again, refer to my situation above)

Collabora, you seem to be entirely accurate, but may I suggest holding off on the rapid analogies? Rather, explain the unlimited service outright to those that wish to understand, using terminology that is already familiar to us, as fellow hosting professionals within this industry. Comparing it to something that doesn't in any way relate to the internet world or this industry may actually confuse more people than it may help, essentially giving the wrong or incomplete impression.
Also, mind holding back with your anti-unlimited references?
Chances are, the people here are not truly anti-unlimited, they just do not properly understand the services that are being offered.

I'll leave the full explanation to you, Collabora. You seem to know what you're talking about.

 

[easyhostmedia]

Just here to clear up the air, and make sure we're all sticking with facts, rather than repeating myths and misinformation.


easyhostmedia, an unlimited hosting provider does not provide an infinite amount of disk or web space, nor does it offer a truly infinite hosting experience.
Unlimited is a type of hosting account that does not enforce predetermined disk or bandwidth quotas.
You seem to be under the impression that unlimited equals infinite, which it simply does not.

the reason i said some clients will complain as because they will think unlimited in unlimited, but when a host says unlimited disc space then they are breaking the law if this is not what they mean or provide. so if a host has a 300GB disc space HD that they pay $100 for and they offer unlimited disc space account for $5 then that user can use that whole 300GB disc space for his $5 as this is what the host advertised, so the host would have a hard time defending any action in a court if he refused this.

 

[bunnykins]

well as i stated before you cannot really offer unlimited space as if a server has a 500GB hard drive then the limit is 500GB, you cant offer over this unless you add a further HD, but then all you have done is increased the limit.

Its like having a 1lt carton of milk, then the limit in that carton is 1 ltr

I totally agree with you.

 

[Sidular]

the reason i said some clients will complain as because they will think unlimited in unlimited, but when a host says unlimited disc space then they are breaking the law if this is not what they mean or provide. so if a host has a 300GB disc space HD that they pay $100 for and they offer unlimited disc space account for $5 then that user can use that whole 300GB disc space for his $5 as this is what the host advertised, so the host would have a hard time defending any action in a court if he refused this.

You are still misinterpreting the term. Unlimited disk space or bandwidth does not mean that the client will have access to an infinite amount of disk space or bandwidth, rather that the client will simply not have any kind of active quotas in place for his account.

This is in no way against the law, and if a host is sued for these actions, the host will in no way be held accountable for any loss of data or problems that the client may have experienced, as the host is providing the services advertised.

Unlimited does not indicate that the client has an infinite amount of data available to him, nor does it indicate that the client will have access to the entire server, and all of the resources that this server provides.

You are, quite simply, misinformed.

 

[easyhostmedia]

You are still misinterpreting the term. Unlimited disk space or bandwidth does not mean that the client will have access to an infinite amount of disk space or bandwidth, rather that the client will simply not have any kind of active quotas in place for his account.

This is in no way against the law, and if a host is sued for these actions, the host will in no way be held accountable for any loss of data or problems that the client may have experienced, as the host is providing the services advertised.

Unlimited does not indicate that the client has an infinite amount of data available to him, nor does it indicate that the client will have access to the entire server, and all of the resources that this server provides.

You are, quite simply, misinformed.

in the eyes of the law Unlimited disk space is just that an unlimited amount of disc space, but if the HDD is 500GB then the LIMIT is 500GB. what you are on about is unmetered, where the host does not pose restrictions

 

[bunnykins]

bunnykins, I of all people understand your distrust of the unlimited hosting provider. (read above)
However, a single situation or dispute with a certain company shouldn't be any kind of indication or representation of how other hosting providers manage their services. To assume that every provider that has and ever will offer unlimited hosting services operates in the same exact way as the one you had an issue with is a rather unrealistic generalization, one that simply is not true. (again, refer to my situation above)

It has actually been more then one. A lot more then one, I have had for more hosts then I can remember but it was far more then one. I can not remember for sure if the 3 hosts I had in row that went out of business offered unlimitted but I do not think so.

Most if not all the unlimitted hosts I have tried put some other limit in place that prevents me from even being able to use them. My site is around 20gb and the unlimitted hosts do not work for me. Most of the time it is an inode limit. With my current limited space host I can use all that is on my plan with out them saying any thing or doing any thing. Basically with my limited host I have all that I can eat sort of speak.

 

[Sidular]

in the eyes of the law Unlimited disk space is just that an unlimited amount of disc space, but if the HDD is 500GB then the LIMIT is 500GB. what you are on about is unmetered, where the host does not pose restrictions

Again, you are incorrect.

Unlimited, once again, refers to the lack of a predetermined quota. Limitations are likely still going to apply, either set by the host itself, or by the available hardware at hand.
If the host deems it appropriate to restrict the access or use of the network by demanding websites which require an extensive amount of the system resources to properly function, the host can legally request for this website to either be removed from the network entirely, or to transfer the website over to another dedicated server with sufficient processing capabilities.

This is, of course, entirely dependent on the hosting provider itself, and whatever policies they have in operation. There is no set rule, so I cannot speak on behalf of all providers out there. However, the fact remains; the unlimited hosting account is entirely legal, and in no way whatsoever breaks any federal, local or international laws, nor is the unlimited provider falsely advertising the services that they offer, as they do not make any such claims of being capable or able to offer an infinite amount of resources to any given website.
Once again, unlimited is regarding the quota, and nothing else.

It has actually been more then one. A lot more then one, I have had for more hosts then I can remember but it was far more then one. I can not remember for sure if the 3 hosts I had in row that went out of business offered unlimitted but I do not think so.

Most if not all the unlimitted hosts I have tried put some other limit in place that prevents me from even being able to use them. My site is around 20gb and the unlimitted hosts do not work for me. Most of the time it is an inode limit. With my current limited space host I can use all that is on my plan with out them saying any thing or doing any thing. Basically with my limited host I have all that I can eat sort of speak.

Send me a PM. I'd like to know more about your website, and any requirements that it may have. (disk, network, etc)

 

[Collabora]

You are still misinterpreting the term. Unlimited disk space or bandwidth does not mean that the client will have access to an infinite amount of disk space or bandwidth, rather that the client will simply not have any kind of active quotas in place for his account.

This is in no way against the law, and if a host is sued for these actions, the host will in no way be held accountable for any loss of data or problems that the client may have experienced, as the host is providing the services advertised.

Unlimited does not indicate that the client has an infinite amount of data available to him, nor does it indicate that the client will have access to the entire server, and all of the resources that this server provides.

You are, quite simply, misinformed.

I am going to take you up on your earlier offer, later. For now I have only enough time for broadsides.

You are being presented with another familiar tactic of the anti-unlimited crowd. Even after your reasonable explanation they repeat the same thing again as if repetition is truth.

Here is the tactic in a nutshell: invent a hosting scenario for a shared hosting environment that will never work, even if it existed. Its the usual straw man fallacy.

The purpose is to confuse the reader into believing that unlimited hosts must provide the same resources to a shared site as if the shared site were on a dedicated server instead. And when the customer doesn't get a dedicated server for $5/mo they cry foul -- not the customer, but the anti-unlimited critic.

What the anti-unlimited critic forgets, or purposely ignores to win an argument, is that "unlimited" describes the hosting plan NOT the shared hosting environment.

 

[easyhostmedia]

Once again, unlimited is regarding the quota, and nothing else.

so if you have a HDD with a quota of 500GB space then you can get 1000GB space from that HDD. the limit of that HDD is 500GB quota you cant get more than 500GB space from that HDD.

 

[Collabora]

so if you have a HDD with a quota of 500GB space then you can get 1000GB space from that HDD. the limit of that HDD is 500GB quota you cant get more than 500GB space from that HDD.

there is no quota :uhh:

 

[Sidular]

so if you have a HDD with a quota of 500GB space then you can get 1000GB space from that HDD. the limit of that HDD is 500GB quota you cant get more than 500GB space from that HDD.

I'm not sure what else I can say. You are still missing the key facts as to what an unlimited hosting account truly is.