We continue to get fraud orders!

T

technut

New member
Hey there, does anyone have a solution to stop or reduce the continued fraud orders being placed over, and over again?

Thanks for reading.
 

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Why do you believe it's fraud?

The only thing MaxMind is going on here, is that the user is using an yahoo.com address, as most customers are.
 
Why do you think this order is fraud? It looks like a legitimate order... The fraud risk score of "2.50" is very low and only due to the fact that the client has a free email address, that's all.

I hope you haven't been turning down orders just as this one. ;)

Optimize your MaxMind settings to meet your needs and set the fraud risk score to 7+ for blocking orders.
 
HostLeet said:
Why do you think this order is fraud? It looks like a legitimate order... The fraud risk score of "2.50" is very low and only due to the fact that the client has a free email address, that's all.

I hope you haven't been turning down orders just as this one. ;)

Optimize your MaxMind settings to meet your needs and set the fraud risk score to 7+ for blocking orders.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If you're blocking orders just because they are using free email, then you are going to block about 90% of the orders you receive, because a majority of people use Gmail, Yahoo and Hotmail for their email.
 
Yes, we have been blocking orders, not all because of ....

HostLeet said:
Why do you think this order is fraud? It looks like a legitimate order... The fraud risk score of "2.50" is very low and only due to the fact that the client has a free email address, that's all.

I hope you haven't been turning down orders just as this one. ;)

Optimize your MaxMind settings to meet your needs and set the fraud risk score to 7+ for blocking orders.
Click to expand...



Hi all,

We really appreciate everyones reply to our question!

We have been blocking orders because of several things that may or may not be of VALID concern..... as you put it "only due to the fact that the client has a free email address" is not the primary reason.

Here are OUR concerns with all the other orders we get allot of and don't ever accept! Maybe we're too strict. I don't know?

1. Order name, address, email address does not match the person that paid for the order by PayPal or Google accounts or CC.
2. No real verifiable address, box, rt, number, street on the order.
3. No valid verifiable telephone number, we called to check.
4. Order is always the lowest hosting pkg they could purchase.
5. 90% of theses same type of reoccurring orders come from out of country.

Just one reason of any of the above would not be a issue for us, but we have been getting just way too many of all 5 of theses concerns in each order. So we have been canceling the orders as fraud.


Below is a random sample of addresses in some orders.
For clients privacy respect we have not included email address and telephone numbers that 99% dint work.


Address 1: JP Nagar
Address 2:
City: Bangalore
State: Karnataka
Postcode: 560001
Country: IN

Address 1: Lapu-lapu, Cebu
Address 2:
City: Cebu
State: Cebu
Postcode: 6000
Country: PH

Address 1: Silver Creek
Address 2: Carmen
City: Cagayan de Oro
State: Misamis Oriental
Postcode: 9000
Country: PH


So what do you say. Are we asking for too much that the order match the purchase info and the purchasing individual, and list a valid address & maybe a phone number.

If they have Internet, PayPal, Google they would have had to supply all this real information to link a bank account to them!

Right?, or are we out of touch with that too?

Comments, suggestions..... advice anyone!

Thanks.
 
technut said:
Hi all,

We really appreciate everyones reply to our question!

We have been blocking orders because of several things that may or may not be of VALID concern..... as you put it "only due to the fact that the client has a free email address" is not the primary reason.

Here are OUR concerns with all the other orders we get allot of and don't ever accept! Maybe we're too strict. I don't know?

1. Order name, address, email address does not match the person that paid for the order by PayPal or Google accounts or CC.
2. No real verifiable address, box, rt, number, street on the order.
3. No valid verifiable telephone number, we called to check.
4. Order is always the lowest hosting pkg they could purchase.
5. 90% of theses same type of reoccurring orders come from out of country.

Just one reason of any of the above would not be a issue for us, but we have been getting just way too many of all 5 of theses concerns in each order. So we have been canceling the orders as fraud.


Below is a random sample of addresses in some orders.
For clients privacy respect we have not included email address and telephone numbers that 99% dint work.


Address 1: JP Nagar
Address 2:
City: Bangalore
State: Karnataka
Postcode: 560001
Country: IN

Address 1: Lapu-lapu, Cebu
Address 2:
City: Cebu
State: Cebu
Postcode: 6000
Country: PH

Address 1: Silver Creek
Address 2: Carmen
City: Cagayan de Oro
State: Misamis Oriental
Postcode: 9000
Country: PH


So what do you say. Are we asking for too much that the order match the purchase info and the purchasing individual, and list a valid address & maybe a phone number.

If they have Internet, PayPal, Google they would have had to supply all this real information to link a bank account to them!

Right?, or are we out of touch with that too?

Comments, suggestions..... advice anyone!

Thanks.
Click to expand...

We're only going off of the screenshot you posted... We don't know if the client's names match their PayPal, or if the address is correct (you didn't mention any of this in your original post).

You only posted a screenshot which shows nothing wrong itself. Try to include more detail in your post next time you make a thread asking for advice. ;)
 
Last edited:
I agree with HostLeet.

With the post you posted, the order was legit. Which is also why MaxMind gave it such a low fraud risk rating. As well, it's the reason we all gave you the same answer.

I to cancel orders when things don't match up.

A person ordering your lowest priced package shouldn't be a concern though. Most people do this to "test" your services.

Best regards,
Jerry
 
Hi guys,

Let me tell you first that it is a good idea to have a "Closed forum" for "Web Hosts" where to discuss such things. The reason is that threads like this help scammers to learn.

Otherwise I regret to say the a lot of fraud is coming from Philippines. although it is a lovely country and I know a some people there who are fine professionals in web design and development.

The only way to process risky orders is to call the prospective customer and to ask them to provide papers that prove their identity.
 
I would say you set the requirements for your own company. If you feel these fit your requirements for a legit company/order then tht's great. These may not fit others idea of a legit order.

I think it is a good starting point. However if you are getting a lot of these orders you may want to relax the requirements a little and see how it goes with some of them. Maybe you are being a little too strict.
 
HostColor said:
Hi guys,

Let me tell you first that it is a good idea to have a "Closed forum" for "Web Hosts" where to discuss such things. The reason is that threads like this help scammers to learn.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more....

But back to the Topic


We've gotten a few orders that MaxMind themselves marked as Fraud, contacted them, and turned out to be legit (one person even bought 5 dedicated servers last month to start his own business)One of the things you need to do, espeically when you are talking about address mismatches, is get ahold of the client. Keep the order to pending and send them a friendly email to the extent of:

Hello

Than you for chosing (COMPANY.) There were a few problems with your order, and as thus, your order remains in a pending status.

The Reasons for this are below:

The IP you signed up from does not match with the address you provided.

If you can reply to this email explaining the reason for this, we would be most happy to approve your order


Something along those lines. You'd be surprised how many are from the place they say they are, but are in the IP area on business.

Like I said, I ran into a few, and one just spent a little over 1000 a month with us, after being with us 6 months.
 
HostLeet said:
Optimize your MaxMind settings to meet your needs and set the fraud risk score to 7+ for blocking orders.
Click to expand...

7? Wow. We find that orders below 3 are usually legit and anything over 4-5 needs to be manually reviewed. We usually request a copy of a photo ID or electric/phone/etc bill with name and address on it if the order scores anything above 4-5 or comes from an open proxy.

If a lot of fraud orders are still getting in I'd suggest deploying MaxMind's telephone verification system.

Fraud checks aren't always fail proof. We've had someone with a score of .03 that ended up being fraudulent.
 
DKing said:
7? Wow. We find that orders below 3 are usually legit and anything over 4-5 needs to be manually reviewed. We usually request a copy of a photo ID or electric/phone/etc bill with name and address on it if the order scores anything above 4-5 or comes from an open proxy.

If a lot of fraud orders are still getting in I'd suggest deploying MaxMind's telephone verification system.

Fraud checks aren't always fail proof. We've had someone with a score of .03 that ended up being fraudulent.
Click to expand...

We've had legit orders come in as "9" on MaxMind. :rolleyes2

That's why I try to keep the score a bit high since all orders are manually reviewed and verified, also. (only real way to make sure)
 
HostLeet said:
We've had legit orders come in as "9" on MaxMind. :rolleyes2
Click to expand...

I assume the order came from a high risk country? I've seen some high scores that ended up being legit but those are usually because the order comes from a high risk country (in which case we still ask for supporting documents).

If the person entered their details correctly, it shouldn't be high at all. The score only goes up to 10, after all.

http://www.maxmind.com/app/ccfd_formula

To each his own I guess. Everyone has to figure out their own process of filtering orders.
 
Last edited:
DKing said:
I assume the order came from a high risk country? I've seen some high scores that ended up being legit but those are usually because the order comes from a high risk country (in which case we still ask for supporting documents).

If the person entered their details correctly, it shouldn't be high at all. The score only goes up to 10, after all.

http://www.maxmind.com/app/ccfd_formula

To each his own I guess. Everyone has to figure out their own process of filtering orders.
Click to expand...

No. The client is in the military and ordered from the base he's stationed at, but used his info back home (naturally), so MaxMind gave it a "9" for the IP being 3000 miles away from the address submitted.

We contacted the client when reviewing the order and he explained everything (and actually praised us for doing so). :) That's why manually reviewing your orders and using phone verification is a MUST..
 
MaxMind is good as algorithm which prevents regular fraud orders. However it might not catch a number of exceptions. So anyone still has to do manual anti-fraud policy. I like MaxMind, but we still follow our own procedures.
 
And that's another thing too.. make sure you manually verify orders, weather the account is set up or not. That way, you can fraud any orders you need to and issue a refund. It's easy to issue a refund to a fraudulent order CC or PP.

Not so easy dealing with a ChargeBack.
 
We use MaxMind too and it really does block almost all Fraud orders - there are occasional false positives but that's not too difficult to deal with as the customer normally gets in touch (it normally happens when someone is away from home and place the order, and the distance is too large). And with WHMCS you can manually check orders as well.

Since using MaxMind a couple of years ago, I can probably count the number of chargebacks on one hand.
 
Just don't pay attention to them, as there are lots of people who want to cheat and use different methods we have no idea about.
 
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