IMPORTANT to know about hosting companies

I

isabelle

New member
... Be carful :devil: :devil:

Just be carful of the companies (like JUSTHOST.com for example) that propose unlimited hosting accounts!!!

Their slogan "Unlimited GB's of Space"," Unlimited GB's of Transfer","Unlimited Domain Hosting","Unlimited E-Mail Accounts","Unlimited MySQL Databases" is a BIG LIE as in fact your are limited with 50000 inodes....their slogan becomes not possible and then not true:
if you reach 50000 inodes you can do nothing but stop making other websites .
---> Every file (a webpage, image file, email, etc) on your account uses up 1 inode. so you reach 50000 files very quickly.

For example a good cms script like joomla with some pictures is about 5000 files.


... BUT the worst is that you 'll see the database requests become slower and slower

This is the email i received from justhost.com support:

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Hi ,
As I see your account is violating our TOS :
http://justhost.com/terms-and-conditions

We do not allow to host more than 50 000 files .
And your account has 185 593 files . You need to remove 135 000 files from your account .
Thank you for understanding
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Be Careful, and read terms and conditions page:
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" INODES

The use of more than 50,000 inodes on any shared account may potentially result in suspension. Accounts found to be exceeding the 50,000 inode limit will automatically be removed from our backup system to avoid overusage. Every file (a webpage, image file, email, etc) on your account uses up 1 inode. Sites that slightly exceed our inode limits are unlikely to be suspended; however, accounts that constantly create and delete large numbers of files on a regular basis, have hundreds of thousands of files, or cause file system damage may be flagged for review and/or suspension. Over time, tens of thousands of messages (or more) build up, eventually pushing the account past our inode limit. To disable your default mailbox, login to cPanel and choose "Mail", then "Default Address", "Set Default Address", and then type in: :fail: No such user here "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it is the same for bluehost.com, fatcow.com ,ipage.com, **************** etc.... all cheaters ...


And those days I had a big problem with the database requests that were becoming slower and slower and when i wrote to the support this is the justhost.com email answer I received :


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,

I can transfer your account to another server but amount of inodes in your account still exceeds allowed limits, there are over 90000 of inodes in your account,

--
Kind regards,

Just Host

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So I think they put my account in a bad slower server to punish me because of the big number of inodes i have in my account.


Then after deleting many websites i sent them an email to ask them where can I see how many inodes I have and this is their answer
(I just change domaine name by xxxx for confidential reasons ):
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Dear customer,

Actually there are still over 80000 files in your public_html, here is detailed report:

xxxxxxxx.com 6443
xxxxx.com 8490
xxxxxxx.com 15
xxxxxx.com 105
xxxxx.com 1121
xxxxxxx.com 5114
xxxxxx.com 1730
xxxxxx.com 9075
xxxxxx.com 6134
xxxxxx.com 6190
xxxxxxx.com 1846
xxxxxx.com 6296
xxxxx.com 1598
xxxxxxxx.com 10401
xxxxxxx.com 1697
xxxxx.com 1086
xxxxxx.com 2002

Kind regards,

Just Host

-----------------------------------------
So as you can see I had to delete many websites for them (justhost.com) could transfer my account to another server!!!! What do you think about their methodes!!!!
I will change this ****ing hoster to another at the end of my account time. BE CARFUL
 
What I am wondering is how on Earth would an average consumer know what "50,000 inodes" even mean. I've been following the industry for many years now and I still don't quite know what the word means.

That's just what happens with unlimited providers. They start creating other limitations that might not make sense to some database-driven sites. What if you have a recipe site? Or a song lyrics site? What then?
 
All servers have limits, so you have to pick a host based on what limits you want to be measured against. If they aren't limiting you based on total disk space and bandwidth then they are using another measure; inodes, cpu utilization, etc. At least with inodes you can count for yourself to see if you have that many. For cpu utilization you have to take their word for it.

I liken it to a giant ponzi scheme. They have a server full of accounts all promised "unlimited" space and bandwidth. As soon as a site starts growing, they have to start juggling things around. A site that gets successful ... someone who would be one of my premier customers ... has to be cajoled into leaving the server. Get them to upgrade. If they won't, then throttle them, insult them, kick them off.

I have a ResellerClub account that allows me to sell "unlimited" hosting, but I don't use it (although my resellers can choose to if they want). I have a couple of test accounts on it, but like all "unlimited disk and bandwidth" hosts there are other limits that are hard to understand and will tick off customers in the end.

Making customers mad isn't a way to get them to return to you.

But, my accounts have disk and bandwidth limits. Any customer can buy more, but they look expensive compared to the "unlimited" hosts.
 
I think Wikipedia explains inodes rather well. :D

You're right, Artashes - the typical consumer has no clue what an inode is. I've never hosted with JustHost, but I do know HostGator shows you how many inodes you're currently using.
 
Artashes said:
What I am wondering is how on Earth would an average consumer know what "50,000 inodes" even mean. I've been following the industry for many years now and I still don't quite know what the word means.
Click to expand...

From the TOS that the OP quoted:

Every file (a webpage, image file, email, etc) on your account uses up 1 inode.
Click to expand...

I think that clears it up for the average customer.

I'm not saying that I like this, but it is where the market forces took us.

I have an "unlimited" package from my ISP, but once you read the terms, you see that the bandwidth can be restricted once you go over a certain amount. The average Joe has no idea what it all means. What he really wants to have is speed, uptime and customer service when needed. In fact, most customers probably have no idea if 99% uptime is good or bad. For many it probably doesn't sound bad at all.

When you advertise a product to an audience that has almost no idea what you're talking about, the technical details are either omitted (moved to the footer), or become marketing tools. Take cameras with their resolution battle. Often times, that number doesn't reflect the quality of the camera by far, but it will still be the first thing to be put in front of the customer's eyes.
 
I guess for the OP and other ppl looking for unlimited hosting, this is a lesson well learned. NO I m not trying to flame you but I do not understand that most clients come to forums like these then ask for cheapest and unlimited hosting, and when the host starts dropping you off you guys come back to these forums complaining how bad a host is.

P.S: ToS and AUP are always the first thing you should ready for a host. Specially in case of unlimited everything
 
I have a different opinion. Companies market "unlimited" plans because they trick customers into thinking there are no limits. To have to read the fine print, in the TOS to find what the real limits are, is a deceptive business practice. Especially since the limit is in a technical "term of art" that few people understand. While its not illegal, it is unethical.

For a short time, I offered the ResellerClub unlimited plans; but I stated the limits as I knew them up front (it could only be used for one domain, it could only host files accessible to a browser or to support pages for a browser, I specifically excluded home computer back up files due to lower security, etc.) Even then, I wasn't comfortable selling the plans, and directed most customers to my regular shared hosting plans.

The hosts doing this are obfuscating their real limits, tricking consumers and then inconveniencing the very people ... those with successful web sites ... that they should be cultivating. I don't blame consumers for "falling for it"; I blame the unethical hosts who are not up front with what their service actually provides.
 
"Unlimited" hosts typically have oversell their services in order to profit. In doing so they cram as many clients on a server to the point it's barely operable and start all over again with the next server. For them it's quantity over quality and their clients suffer.

Most clients they receive never reach their "inode" limit or even come close. For those that do, they boot them faster than it took them to enter their credit card information. If your account uses more than minimal resources, that lessens the amount of clients they can place on that server and therefore lessens their profit.

Also, most of these companies have a large advertising budget which they use to their advantage. The average person sees a company ad plastered all over the Internet and unfortunately assumes "they must be good if they are doing so well that they can advertise so much". Only to find out that there is no such thing as "Unlimited", they have terrible customer service and slow servers.

When it comes to "Unlimited", buyer beware...

:crash:
 
I think if you're developing a ton of websites with thousands of files, you're probably savvy enough about unlimited web hosting to know better, or should be.

Let's take this analogy cross industry - we have a car repair shop here that advertises lifetime guarantees on repairs and I use them regularly - never a problem with them honoring their warranty. I imagine if I were racing my car off road every week that it might create problems. Do they advertise restrictions on their home page - NO. Is their warranty understood - it should be. Normal wear and tear will never be questioned. Blowing out ball joints twice a month would probably get your warranty voided and rightfully so.

I understand 'unlimited' is a grey marketing concept, but when I see verbage like, "It's a lie," part of the blame falls on some of their users as well. If you're going to participate in this business, or any business, claiming ignorance only carries so much weight. When I was in grade school and didn't know how to spell a word, my teacher said, "Look it up in the dictionary." How hard is it to Google 'inode?" When you don't read (or understand) the Terms of Service with the vendor you're contracting with, it diminishes your claim that you've been cheated.

I have a history of always advocating realistic limits, but some providers manage unlimited offers very well, and as a result, are extremely successful.
 
"Unlimited" hosts typically have oversell their services in order to profit. In doing so they cram as many clients on a server to the point it's barely operable and start all over again with the next server. For them it's quantity over quality and their clients suffer.

Most clients they receive never reach their "inode" limit or even come close. For those that do, they boot them faster than it took them to enter their credit card information. If your account uses more than minimal resources, that lessens the amount of clients they can place on that server and therefore lessens their profit.
Click to expand...

You see, I have trouble wrapping my head around those two arguments at the same time. A host can indeed boot off any customer that isn't profitable enough. Because they can do that, there is no reason to cram the servers, they can just keep the customers who are using small enough amounts to make the business profitable. Keeping these profitable customers is just as important for any host, big or small, so the host naturally wants them to be satisfied enough so that they don't leave. In fact, i'd say it's often more important for the big "bad" hosts, because much of their hosting sales come as a result of high advertising expenses (affiliates, Google ads, you name them).

The fact that servers are crammed, unsecured or otherwise not working properly, is nothing but a side effect of poor management. Poor management need no excuse, it just exists. Good management, even if it means losing 10% of your customers, is the more profitable approach in the long run.

I have a history of always advocating realistic limits, but some providers manage unlimited offers very well, and as a result, are extremely successful.
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Very well put, and I agree that it is true. There are many hosts though that are extremely successful despite being quite bad at what they do. I know it first hand, having tried their services.

The only explanation I can find for the "bad service, crammed servers, yet successful, growing business" must be the low standards that customers demand or expect of their hosts. If it is possible to have satisfied customers despite having to repair the car twice a week for the same problem and pay for it, then that's the kind of service that many of the repair shops will be selling.

In any case, it's quite amazing what great marketing, customers' lack of terms of comparison and "I don't know how to change hosts" can do.
 
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Steve-Hostirian said:
I understand 'unlimited' is a grey marketing concept, but when I see verbage like, "It's a lie," part of the blame falls on some of their users as well. If you're going to participate in this business, or any business, claiming ignorance only carries so much weight. When I was in grade school and didn't know how to spell a word, my teacher said, "Look it up in the dictionary." How hard is it to Google 'inode?" When you don't read (or understand) the Terms of Service with the vendor you're contracting with, it diminishes your claim that you've been cheated.
Click to expand...

I really couldn't disagree with this more.
Unlimited is not a grey area in any way. It is a lie. Period.
Even to offer unlimited and not put bogus restrictions is a lie. It's not grey it's very black and white.

To put the onus on the client to somehow navigate around how you are presenting the lie is a sleazy tactic and no better than the lie itself.
 
Its interesting that a warranty is given as an example similar to the "unlimited" promises of some hosts. The fact is that consumer warranties are strictly limited by law (Magnuson Moss Warranty Act) enforced by the FTC. See FTC's Business Person's Guide to Federal Warranty Law to see just how stringent warranty law is.

In short, if the hosts put "unlimited" as a warranty on their sites they would end up with hefty fines from the FTC if they didn't deliver. They would be compelled to not only NOT kick someone off, but to either provide the disk space and bandwidth or provide restitution, or both. Any limitations to the warranty statement must appear on the warranty certificate itself, the wording has to be precise (including the word "Limited" if there are any limitations) and not buried in the middle of a 5,000 word TOS that is hidden away behind a link.

So, bad analogy, but perhaps a taste of what will happen to the hosting industry if it doesn't police itself.
 
So, bad analogy, but perhaps a taste of what will happen to the hosting industry if it doesn't police itself.
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I would disagree - I think analogies are about perception moreso than legal comparisons or language. Another analogy could be about the term FREE in many marketing campaigns, where quite often there are conditions attached. Is the term FREE a lie? Well, while you may not be actually paying for that laptop, those three conditions involving participation will cost you a bundle. Some people would call this a lie, but it's been going on forever and I don't see it going away. Do I realistically expect 'Unlimited' to be regulated in our industry - NO WAY. I'm not seeing public outrage. What I am seeing is thousands upon thousands of people flocking to these sites, and despite the complaints we see from some on these forums, the overwhelming majority of their users are comfortable with the services they're receiving.

@Blue - don't get me wrong, I personally dislike the term 'unlimited' as it's marketed. I also dislike the term 'FREE' as a lot of industries market that. In terms of defining the meaning of 'unlimited,' of course it's a lie and it is very black and white - but in terms of perception, it is a grey area. I see this more as - does their service provide a perceived value or solution for their clients? Do the majority of their users perceive the term 'unlimited' as a lie? NO. I relate this to my days of being a field engineer. When I took calls, my primary focus wasn't to fix their equipment - it was to fix the client. It was about providing a perception of value. As long as the masses perceive value with unlimited offers, these types of marketing strategies will continue.

There are many hosts though that are extremely successful despite being quite bad at what they do. I know it first hand, having tried their services.
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As well as I - LOL. Yet, this reinforces my take on perception of value.
 
Steve-Hostirian said:
I would disagree - I think analogies are about perception moreso than legal comparisons or language. Another analogy could be about the term FREE in many marketing campaigns, where quite often there are conditions attached. Is the term FREE a lie? Well, while you may not be actually paying for that laptop, those three conditions involving participation will cost you a bundle. Some people would call this a lie, but it's been going on forever and I don't see it going away. Do I realistically expect 'Unlimited' to be regulated in our industry - NO WAY. I'm not seeing public outrage. What I am seeing is thousands upon thousands of people flocking to these sites, and despite the complaints we see from some on these forums, the overwhelming majority of their users are comfortable with the services they're receiving.
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Its a fair point, but just as in the warranty example, there are legal requirements for "truth in advertising" that apply from state to state (as well as some Federal regulations).

I can see a situation where regulation does come as more and more people get hit by the limitations. All it takes is for some Congresscritter's grandson to be stung by a "hidden" limitation for regulation to ensue.

In any case, I think we agree its an unethical way to conduct business. I have no problem with people pointing that out to those seeking safe, secure hosts on which to put their site.
 
What I really do not understand is why most people support overselling hosting providers and buy from them, despite that most of them know that things like "unlimited disc space" can not be provided. And when one day what was obvious before becomes a reality, people freak out...
 
HostColor said:
What I really do not understand is why most people support overselling hosting providers and buy from them, despite that most of them know that things like "unlimited disc space" can not be provided. And when one day what was obvious before becomes a reality, people freak out...
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People only make that mistake once. The problem is that by the time you realize the limitations, you have a lot invested in your site. Moving a site can be difficult, and down time can be costly.

I think the attraction for consumers is that they don't want to be surprised by overage charges. "Unlimited" promises to prevent that, just like "unlimited talk minutes" on your cell phone does.
 
I can see a situation where regulation does come as more and more people get hit by the limitations. All it takes is for some Congresscritter's grandson to be stung by a "hidden" limitation for regulation to ensue.

In any case, I think we agree its an unethical way to conduct business. I have no problem with people pointing that out to those seeking safe, secure hosts on which to put their site.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem either with people pointing out the pitfalls of unlimited disk space and bandwidth offers, but I do have a problem with a specific few OP's who, in my opinion, are playing the industry.

And yes, I thought about the grandson scenario, but honestly, with the prevailing sentiment to keep hands-off the Internet, I can't envision majority consensus to regulate the term 'unlimited.' I could be proven wrong. It won't be the first time. :D
 
I've been searching for a long time trying to find these Unlimited Hard Drives these guys use. I've called every supplier I can think of and no one will sell me an unlimited drive.

"No thanks. I don't want the 2TB drives, I want the Unlimited drives. I know they exist because so many hosting providers have them!"

Then they hang up on me. So I call my bandwidth provider:

"Hello, I'd like the unlimited bandwidth please."

Cogent: "We can do a full 10Gbits for you or multiple 10Gbits. Is that what you want?"

Me: "no, I want what HOST-X has. The unlimited bandwidth."

Cogent: "What kind of router do you have?"

So I call Cisco.

"hi, I need the unlimited optics please"

Cisco: "Do you mean the DWDM optics?"

Me: "Is that unlimited because I want what HOST-X has. that way I don't ever need to upgrade bandwidth again because it's unlimited"

Me: "Hello? Hello?"

I know this is a giant conspiricy among my competitors to keep these technologies from me. I'll find them one of these days!!!
 
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DataShack said:
I've been searching for a long time trying to find these Unlimited Hard Drives these guys use. I've called every supplier I can think of and no one will sell me an unlimited drive.

"No thanks. I don't want the 2TB drives, I want the Unlimited drives. I know they exist because so many hosting providers have them!"

Then they hang up on me. So I call my bandwidth provider:

"Hello, I'd like the unlimited bandwidth please."

Cogent: "We can do a full 10Gbits for you or multiple 10Gbits. Is that what you want?"

Me: "no, I want what HOST-X has. The unlimited bandwidth."

Cogent: "What kind of router do you have?"

So I call Cisco.

"hi, I need the unlimited optics please"

Cisco: "Do you mean the DWDM optics?"

Me: "Is that unlimited because I want what HOST-X has. that way I don't ever need to upgrade bandwidth again because it's unlimited"

Me: "Hello? Hello?"

I know this is a giant conspiricy among my competitors to keep these technologies from me. I'll find them one of these days!!!
Click to expand...

I got a good laugh from that because I could just see someone actually doing it and the blank expression on the face of the providers!

:devil:
 
Like you all have said the "Unlimited" package is a marketing ploy or a scheme to trick people into buying the package. Sure they tell you in their TOS that it isn't really unlimited but who looks at a TOS?
 
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