Do Follow or No Follow - SEO Tips

Artashes said:
On this note, I would like to take this thread back to its original discussion rather than discussion about HD. If someone has questions/concerns, you are always welcome to post in the Feedback forum. :)
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Ok, the title of this thread is " Do Follow or No Follow" so I hope it's ok to continue on that and related topics. I agree, let's focus on forums and sites in general, not HD specifically.

No, I'm not suggesting that a forum owner not be rewarded. I only mentioned your ads in the context of your suggestion that as posters we should consider the discussion alone a suitable benefit for typing on a forum, instead of on our own sites. But let's move along...

I've been reading webmaster forums since the very first day they began about 14-15 years ago, and am convinced the content quality has suffered a slow but steady decline over that period.

There are now hundreds, maybe thousands, of webmaster forums, all doing pretty much the same thing. Anybody can post anything so long as they don't spam, and try to stay on topic.

So my question is, how many magazines do you subscribe to that publish just about any article anybody submits? How many magazines do you read that are almost exactly like every other magazine?

One theory is that communities that want to raise their head above this crowd of copycat competitors might consider what I call the "Letter To The Editor" model.

This model is...

Anybody can read of course. And anybody can submit a post too. But only the best posts get published, just like in the Letter To The Editor section of your local paper.

Yes, I know, this is sounding like a lot of work for the mod. But compared to what, writing all the content on our site ourselves?

A few things to consider.

If every post is run through a moderator prior to publication, there will be _exactly zero chance of spam_ being published. Once this fact is made clear to visitors, spammers will vanish. Gone. No longer a need to deal with them at all. End of problem.

Also, once posters realize that they have to exert their best effort to be heard, they will do so, or they will be gone. The best posters remain, the others go elsewhere.

End result. Over time, the mod mail box becomes a lower volume of mostly quality content, and moderating stops being a thankless job of managing the clueless etc.

End result. Readers get a much better reading experience. Equals more links. Equals more traffic. Equals more ad income.

In the net forum community this sounds like an idealistic impossible revolutionary proposal that could never possibly work.

But, all this theory really is, is the way thousands of quality publications have been operated for hundreds of years.

So, as example....

This post is the kind of content you wish to encourage on your forum, or it isn't.

If I'm giving you what you want, I should be rewarded and encouraged to continue.

If the post doesn't meet your standard, it should be deleted. You are under no obligation to publish me, and if I don't get that, oh well, my problem.

Thus hath I ranted. :-)
 
Engage-Engine said:
One theory is that communities that want to raise their head above this crowd of copycat competitors might consider what I call the "Letter To The Editor" model. [...] Only the best posts get published.

[...]

End result. Over time, the mod mail box becomes a lower volume of mostly quality content, and moderating stops being a thankless job of managing the clueless etc.

[...]

In the net forum community this sounds like an idealistic impossible revolutionary proposal that could never possibly work.
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While this is an interesting concept, and I can name at least one hosting forum that implement that strategy, overall, it seem to annoy members even more because people nowadays do not like to wait for their posts to be "approved". I test-run such a community by giving an advice to someone who was pressed on time. My post was published the next day, almost 24 hours later, when the answer was no longer relevant. Another one - almost a 2-day wait.

I think that for the industry such as web hosting, timely responses are essential. Imagine someone coming here to post a downtime problem, or a hardware issue that needs fast resolution - even if it takes an actively moderated forum to approve the post within a couple of hours (under the avalanche of total number of posts mods will have to read), these 2 hours are so precious to the user he might go elsewhere to ask for help. Same with a general discussion that might require an up-to-date response.

Unfortunately, I will also have to disagree with that with time the amount of incoming posts will eventually decline for moderators to approve/delete. The larger percentage of spammers, it seems, never even read/scan the conditions of communities they join, so they will never see any kind of notice that all posts will have to be approved. Additionally, the Internet population will only grow with time, so I do not see a slowdown in spam anytime in the near future.

Talking about the benefits members extract from contributing valuable information, take WebmasterWorld forum for example. Forget the nofollow links, why do people stay and contribute great info on a forum where they cannot even have a basic signature?? Why do some even pay for membership for the right to post and benefit someone else when they can participate on any other webmaster forum for free, have a signature and advertise? Yet WW is still one of the largest and most valuable communities.

Its a similar concept for general content sites. You can get the news from anywhere nowadays for free, but The Wall Street Journal charges for access. And they still have advertisers on the site as well.

It all comes down to content. The better it is, the more aggressively you will try to protect it. People, on the other hand, will always be drawn to higher quality information because the better you are informed, the better decisions you make.

So as you said, while a proposed by you technique is ideal, to make it work in the world where information is dynamic and always on the move will be very difficult.
 
Thanks for the dialog!

Artashes said:
While this is an interesting concept, and I can name at least one hosting forum that implement that strategy, overall, it seem to annoy members even more because people nowadays do not like to wait for their posts to be "approved".
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Yes, understood. The expectation of "I should get everything I want and now" is widespread, agreed. I agree, because I feel that way as a reader too. I want the best posts from the best posters, and I want it now, not after wading through mountains of other tedious stuff.

I think that for the industry such as web hosting, timely responses are essential.
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Well yes, I take your point. Still, even in web hosting, aren't these time pressing questions a tiny fraction of all posts?

The larger percentage of spammers, it seems, never even read/scan the conditions of communities they join, so they will never see any kind of notice that all posts will have to be approved.
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"EVERY SINGLE POST NO EXCEPTIONS REVIEWED BY AN EDITOR BEFORE PUBLICATION", printed in huge text, right under the signup button.

This text, and a signup button, and nothing else, on the signup page.

Additionally, the Internet population will only grow with time, so I do not see a slowdown in spam anytime in the near future.
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Yes, spam will grow, agreed. But not in venues where there is no chance of it appearing in print. Is there spam in the NY Times? In Newsweek? Nobody submits spam to them, right?

Forget the nofollow links, why do people stay and contribute great info on a forum where they cannot even have a basic signature??
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I agree the need for community is strong. You've got a good point there. Many people really do want the 'anybody can say anything' cocktail party experience, have to agree.

All I can add to this is that if every other forum in our niche is doing the cocktail party thing, maybe we can stand out by doing something else?

It all comes down to content. The better it is, the more aggressively you will try to protect it. People, on the other hand, will always be drawn to higher quality information because the better you are informed, the better decisions you make.
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Yes, agreed again. Truly. So how to get the very best content?

Perhaps an easier to digest concept is to think of posters as guest columnists? You know, what posts would you publish on your blog?

To me, it's an essentially a mindset thing. Folks have gotten used to one forum model, and now think that's the only way it can work, forgetting that almost the entire rest of the publishing world works differently.

So as you said, while a proposed by you technique is ideal, to make it work in the world where information is dynamic and always on the move will be very difficult.
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Even in web hosting, how much of the information published in forums is really 48 hours time sensitive?

This is just one vote. But you know what I want? A webmaster forum I have to fight my way in to.

Here's an example that can be used to illustrate both our perspectives. Do you remember the I-Sales Digest?
 
Very interesting conversation. I won't stick around a forum where I have to wait for my comments or threads to be moderated. As well, I won't frequent forums that aren't adequately moderated.

My two favorite web hosting communities are Hosting Discussion and Web Hosting Talk, but I do post on quite a few others. It would be great if we didn't have to concern ourselves with spammers, but we do. Every morning, I review all the comments on my blog and blacklist at least 20 IPs daily. I can't even imagine the effort it would require for a forum such as this to moderate every thread and reply. Communities rely on their members to help by reporting suspicious activity and obvious spam. We're all in this together to make our community a great forum for discussion.

I learn so much more than I contribute - on a daily basis here. Like the coffee cup in the HD banner, I pour myself a cup of coffee each morning and login - to kick off each morning on the right foot. :D
 
Ok, I'm editing my post since I'd only seen the first page of this discussion -- obviously there is a whole lot more to respond to than I realized...

It seems to me like both things are needed:

1) Up-to-the-minute no-follow
2) Edited publication-style do-follow

What about dividing a forum into sections, most no-follow for advice, time-sensitive posts, etc., but some for do-follow, edited, higher-quality content? Engage-Engine, what you're looking for is essentially a print publication forum. It's a great idea. It could be an extremely valuable method for search rank, especially once it got established as a source for valuable information, but yeah, it's its own beast and would need to be it's own, small, manageable section as it would be hugely labor-intensive to maintain.

Spammers don't spam the New York Times because the NYT is a print publication first with paid staff writers. They don't accept un-solicited content for their publication (unless, of course, it's a letter-to-the-editor, in which case it is still edited and vetted before publication). However, does the NYT website get spammed? YES! Just like everywhere else on the internet.

And I think, even if you were to have a signup page with nothing but a button and HUGE disclaimer, spammers would still come. They don't read.

It's important to remember that your comments are your reputation and that has always been valuable, since long before we were worrying about search engines. It's valuable to PEOPLE and, while we might forget it, real people are the actual engines of commerce. As Steve-H said, (and to paraphrase) there is a lot of value in a reputation that goes far beyond the immediate benefit of a quick link index.
 
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janestewart said:
I read one post regarding Nofollow links in Google written by Matt Cutts. Hope it will be useful.
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I read that today, but followed it from a host's blog. After reading it (not all the comments though, too little time), I think that nofollow remains just a way to avoid a Google penalty at any costs, or to reduce the amount of spam/low quality posts, again, regardless of the indirect costs.

I've always found it fair to give back to people commenting/posting. Allowing them to have a signature is one way of doing that. With nofollow still costing the forum/blog owner PageRank juice, I would say that it is unproductive to not let members/subscribers make use of it -- as long as their posts are valuable.

Nofollow, no signature, bans, could all be tools for the moderator to slap the hand of unruly individuals. Or they could be a way to show appreciation towards individuals who don't go against the rules, say for a period of at least X months. I see lots of plugins/addons ideas here. :)

From an SEO point of view, with this change, nofollow has just lost any value it might have had for not leaking PageRank.
 
do follow site is the way to go... its like a magnet for internet marketers which is equal to traffic :)

so making your site do follow will help you get good traffic but then you have to watch Spams. :)

good luck!
 
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