bandwidth and diskspace overselling

[Blue]

I can verify that if a customer "legitimately" uses 100% of their resources they will be "untouched". The tricky part is whenever we'd see people using 20-30GB+ 99.9% of the time they had illegal content, pirated software, etc.. So that's an easy terminate.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but all who have posted "overselling is bad", "the companies who do it are scamming people" etc.. IMO you're all ignorant, following a trend, and likely just VERY jealous. In no way am I trying to flame here.. Until you run a successful, multimillion dollar hosting company, you should bow down to those who have thousands of happy customers, their own DC(or 5) and just happen to drive a $500k car.

To sum it all up:
Overselling CAN be bad if done by "n00bs". "Oversellers" that know what they're doing will forever have my ear, and a much larger bank account than I. Don't oversell with less than $500k to invest(or so I've been told).

What site do you have that used Unlimited Space and Unlimited Bandwidth? That is what this multimillion dollar Bluehost offers.

I am certainly not ignorant, I follow no trends and I sure as hell am not jealous of anyone.
Bluehost is offering a lie. I don't really give a damn how many millions they may have. I will never have any respect or jealousy for any company that has to mislead people to become "successful".

You seem to be suggesting that you need to have a multimillion dollar business to understand how business works. I would suggest otherwise.
Many BIG businesses fall very hard.

 

[Blackleo]

I think what Blue is referring to is that some of these major companies make their money by providing something that is unrealistic. With misleading and their ToS they can suspend someone for using lots of resources that may endanger the services of others. They suspended and due to their ToS they can't get their money back. That is how I assume it works, know if you (siforek) want to call em successful because they make millions on overselling and ripping people off then ok do so, but it ain't just right.

 

[siforek]

What site do you have that used Unlimited Space and Unlimited Bandwidth? That is what this multimillion dollar Bluehost offers.

I am certainly not ignorant, I follow no trends and I sure as hell am not jealous of anyone.
Bluehost is offering a lie. I don't really give a damn how many millions they may have. I will never have any respect or jealousy for any company that has to mislead people to become "successful".

You seem to be suggesting that you need to have a multimillion dollar business to understand how business works. I would suggest otherwise.
Many BIG businesses fall very hard.

In many ways BH is offering "a lie". I think there's 1 key point to be made..
Hosts that oversell target IMO "the n00bs", beginners, and basically people who just want a site up and as much for their money as possible(and don't care about the details).

There are quite a lot of people like that. For them BH is PERFECT!! I personally wouldn't host a customer like that for anything! Their the ones who call at 3AM asking you how to make a website. Don't know how to use google, and will never use your knowledgebase no matter how many times you show them an answer in it.

IMO overselling is for those people. Not for businesses, developers, or anyone who can understand/care about the important details of where they're hosted.

 

[Blackleo]

siforek then wouldn't you consider overselling being a scam to the people who are beginning? Everyone started knowing nothing, innocent perhaps and then they see a deal that they see as good and to them beneficial to start their website.

 

[siforek]

siforek then wouldn't you consider overselling being a scam to the people who are beginning? Everyone started knowing nothing, innocent perhaps and then they see a deal that they see as good and to them beneficial to start their website.

If could be considered a scam to someone looking to host a high traffic site, but those people should know better already, so not really. A personal blog, family website, etc. It's just fine.

The only problem I can see with someone starting out with BH is that if they become more successful and do need to get their own server they'll be in for a big surprise when they have to pay hundreds/month for the same diskspace/bandwidth they got for a few $.

 

[Blue]

It's a scam PERIOD.
What is the difference who the client happens to be?

How can you equate it being OK just because the client isn't savvy on how these things work?

Essentially what you are saying is that its OK to run a scam and screw people, as long as the only people you screw are the ones who don't know any better.

Isn't this the VERY REASON we should be trying to ensure ethical standard in our industry and every other industry?

 

[siforek]

It's a scam PERIOD.
What is the difference who the client happens to be?

How can you equate it being OK just because the client isn't savvy on how these things work?

Essentially what you are saying is that its OK to run a scam and screw people, as long as the only people you screw are the ones who don't know any better.

Isn't this the VERY REASON we should be trying to ensure ethical standard in our industry and every other industry?

Ethical standards I agree with. I'm by no means saying that it's ok to screw people over. Basically those providers are good for someone who won't try to use what they are allocated. Yeah, I know it's stupid, and yes I do think that BH and others have taken advantage of people's lack of knowledge.

This is why reviews are so important. I mean actual reviews by customers, not all the web hosting ranking and review sites that are paid double as affiliates or are actually run by the host who puts themselves at the top(yes, it's happens).

If I did a full blown shared hosting operation again I wouldn't oversell, never have. If someone asked me for suggestions I'd mention a non overselling host. If they said "what about BH" I'd explain what overselling is. And if after understanding what overselling is they still want the world for a few $ then they take the risk.

I want to clarify that I don't think overselling is good. I do think it's ridiculous that people are being misinformed and in turn expecting far more for less than can actually be provided. But overselling happens in every industry, it always will, and I don't blame BH. If it wasn't them than it'd be someone else. They do it much better than others.

We all have our own opinions. There's more discussion on WHT about this than anything else I think. To each his own, and no hard feelings either way.

 

[csn-uk]

Ethical standards I agree with. I'm by no means saying that it's ok to screw people over. Basically those providers are good for someone who won't try to use what they are allocated. Yeah, I know it's stupid, and yes I do think that BH and others have taken advantage of people's lack of knowledge.

This is why reviews are so important. I mean actual reviews by customers, not all the web hosting ranking and review sites that are paid double as affiliates or are actually run by the host who puts themselves at the top(yes, it's happens).

If I did a full blown shared hosting operation again I wouldn't oversell, never have. If someone asked me for suggestions I'd mention a non overselling host. If they said "what about BH" I'd explain what overselling is. And if after understanding what overselling is they still want the world for a few $ then they take the risk.

I want to clarify that I don't think overselling is good. I do think it's ridiculous that people are being misinformed and in turn expecting far more for less than can actually be provided. But overselling happens in every industry, it always will, and I don't blame BH. If it wasn't them than it'd be someone else. They do it much better than others.

We all have our own opinions. There's more discussion on WHT about this than anything else I think. To each his own, and no hard feelings either way.

A set of ethical standard would be nice, and yes many of us as ether experienced providers, web developers or designers will always get asked for our recommendations or reasons for and against overselling.

I think it’s fair to say that as mentioned this is within every industry and there are hosts that oversell better than others but ultimately it leads to even the inexperienced getting hit by the TOS occasionally.

More importantly id say other than the performance issues involved with overselling and the often usual highly padded TOS’s, many smaller hosts tend to lose out on custom due to the newer users immediately being sold by the terms “unlimited” and “unmetered” as well as a quick Google for reviews they very rarely delve further for the forums. I know many people who have regretted doing it and are ether no longer with those providers or are simply waiting for their subscriptions to end.

It’s a vicious circle but ultimately people are being scammed none the less, both experienced and inexperienced.

 

[monsterjerry]

It's a scam PERIOD.
What is the difference who the client happens to be?

How can you equate it being OK just because the client isn't savvy on how these things work?

Essentially what you are saying is that its OK to run a scam and screw people, as long as the only people you screw are the ones who don't know any better.

Isn't this the VERY REASON we should be trying to ensure ethical standard in our industry and every other industry?

There is a difference between the ideal world and reality.

By your definition of scams, I would say 90% of the TV advertisement should be rated as scams and filtered. Think about advertisement of cigarettes, soft drinks, beers, laundry products, financial tools, bank loans - they are all misleading.

By saying that it's okay to oversell doesn't mean that its OK to run a scam and screw people. Overselling, when managed nicely, is benefiting to both clients and the sellers.

 

[SenseiSteve]

One of the hosts I see most recommended on all forums is HostGator, even though they offer unlimited space and bandwidth. When I queried their LiveChat operator last week, they responded their unlimited plans were only for shared hosting plans. I found nothing addressing this on their site or in their TOS. And they're just one example of many hosts that market unlimited services.

 

[hostlonestar]

All of you guys complaining about overselling should stop using cell phones and internet right now. Both of those are oversold no matter which carrier/providor you have.

From my experiance (I have 6 years in this industry) most people that claim to not oversell do. Overselling is a very productive business model. If done correctly is can help you and your clients very well. You bringing in more money will cause your clients to be on better servers.

Your bandwidth providor is oversold. Your DC oversells their resources. The host you get your resources from is oversold. The average site uses less than 1GB of space and 5GB of bandwidth.

So long as you are managing the overselling correctly, managing your servers correctly, and not stuffing them full, you'll be fine. You need to have some capital on reserve, and have some servers on reserve, in order to do it, in case of spikes.