1and1 - Should I Take Legal Action?

[Sidular]

I received an invoice yesterday for a service that I had cancelled.
So, I sent their billing department an email asking what was up, and even provided proof that the domain name was in fact cancelled and automatic renewal was in fact terminated.


Here are the emails.

Invoice;

Dear Ty Harvey,

Please find attached the invoice dated 08/12/2013.

This invoice is in pdf electronic format. It can be read with the Adobe Reader, which you can download free of charge from the Adobe website at http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html.

Double click on the attached file to view the invoice and print out a hard-copy for your records. The amount shown will be debited from your credit card on file within the next 7 days. Please do NOT send us a check.

If you have any billing-related questions, please call our billing department at 1-877-300-8316 Monday through Friday (except holidays) 9am to 5pm EST. We will be happy to help you clear up any questions you may have, as quickly as possible.




Sincerely,

Your 1&1 Team
www.1and1.com

Earn back your 1&1 service fees and more by referring new customers.
Click or Visit: http://order.1and1.com/xml/order/Affiliate

My first message;

Hey, there must be some kind of mistake. The invoice that is due was generated for a domain that I cancelled on 29.06.2013.

Could you please delete this invoice?

For proof of cancellation, here is the cancellation email.

------


Customer ID: ID
Contract ID: 4ID
Processing ID: ID

Dear Mr. Harvey,

We have received your contract cancelation on June 27, 2013
and regret your decision to leave us. However, we accept your
cancelation as follows:

Pos. Description Action Date Status
===========================================================================
1. 1&1 Instant Domain CANCEL September 27, 2013 CONFIRMED
1.1 operationsidfin.com CANCEL September 27, 2013 CONFIRMED

Please note that all contractual services above will be deactivated on
the date of cancelation.

We'd be happy to assist with any further questions you might have
regarding your cancellation. Should you reconsider your decision, we'd
be pleased to discuss a personal offer for you. You can reach us 7 days
a week from 8am - 8pm Eastern Time Zone at 1-866-258-5616 (toll-free).

We always want to improve our products and services and therefore
kindly ask you for your feedback. If you have time, please respond to
our very short cancelation survey:

https://survey1.irquest.com/irqirq/Start?si=826&cs=12710333&p0=1428

We care about our customers' satisfaction with the services of 1&1, and
we are delighted to welcome you again at 1&1.

Yours Sincerely,

Your 1&1 Support Team

1st Response

Dear Ty Harvey (Cust: ID),

Thank you for contacting us.

We apologize for the confusion. The invoice that you have received is for the automatic annual renewal of the following domain: operationsidfin.com. The domain has been renewed for you for the next 12 months and is nonrefundable as stated in our terms and conditions. An outstanding balance is considered valid and to process a payment, please go to www.admin.1and1.com and update the payment details on file. Once it is updated, the system will automatically run a retry or your mat notify us and we will be happy to process a retry for you.

For refunds and disputes, please email complaints@1and1.com and rest assured an account specialist will further assist you.

If you have any further questions do not hesitate to reply to this e-mail or contact us during office hours by phone at 1-877-300-8316 from 9am-5pm EST, Monday through Friday.

--
Sincerely
Divine Grace Balingcasag
Billing Department
1&1 Internet Inc.

My 2nd Response

Except, I cancelled the domain name, as made evident by the cancellation confirmation email that I provided in my original response.

The fact that you renewed a service that has been legally cancelled should entitle me to some form of refund of the unauthorized transaction. This is simply unacceptable. It is a fraudulent transaction, and I insist that I be refunded.

Please forward this to whichever department you must. This is a billing issue, caused by an apparent glitch in your billing system. In fact, I disabled automatic renewal of the operationsidfin.com domain name, as evident by this confirmation message.

Customer ID: ID


Dear Mr Harvey,

You have turned off automatic renewal for your domain.

Automatic domain renewal ensures full and uninterrupted continuation of
your ownership and usage rights for your domain name(s). You have made an
investment in your domain(s), we ensure that you do not lose that investment
due to a temporary oversight.

The following domain name will expire on 08/11/2013:

operationsidfin.com

In order to ensure that you keep your domain, please activate automatic renewal here:

https://admin.1and1.com/xml/config/DomainOverview

Thank you for choosing 1&1 as your trusted domain provider.

Sincerely,

Your 1&1 Internet Team
1&1 Internet Inc.
http://1and1.com


There was no confusion. Only an error, and a fraudulent invoice for which I will not pay.

I haven't received a response for my second email just yet. I'll be sure to post it here when I do.

I've never liked 1and1, for obvious reasons. However, I never once would have imagined that they would essentially charge me for a service that I in fact cancelled.
Should I threaten legal action? Their terms of service wouldn't exactly apply here, would it? I mean, this was a fraudulent transaction.

Please advise. What are my options?

 

[spenchev]

Dont stop writing them and your case will be resolved quickly. With other words, if you write them every day, they will be interested to resolve the case.

 

[HostColor]

Tyler, people make mistakes. unfortunately some companies turn the mistakes into a corporate culture. This one is probably one of them. My advise to you is to be more relaxed on this. You'd not sue someone for making a mistake and renewing your domain name. Who'd be bothering oneself to work on a case like this. Leave the above mentioned web host (they are shameless overseller anyway), transfer the domain to any other company and think about how would you make some money out of it.

 

[Sidular]

Their most recent response;

Dear Ty Harvey (Cust: ID),

Thank you for contacting us.

The invoice that you have received is for the automatic annual renewal of the following domain: operationsidfin.com. The domain has been renewed for you for the next 12 months and is nonrefundable as stated in our terms and conditions. It got renewed on 2013-09-27 prior to the cancellation date for the billing period 08/11/2013-08/11/2014. Please be informed that the outstanding balance is valid. To settle the balance, please make sure that the payment details is updated so that the system can process a rerty for the payment.

For refunds and disputes, please email complaints@1and1.com and rest assured an account specialist will further assist you.

Since the contract has been renewed, if you initiate a cancellation, you will still be invoiced for the period from when the contract renewed until the date it was completely closed. The invoice will be adjusted with the unused months of hosting.


If you have any further questions do not hesitate to reply to this e-mail or contact us during office hours by phone at 1-877-300-8316 from 9am-5pm EST, Monday through Friday.

Honestly, why bother offering a cancellation service if it takes a month or two to actually activate, which is what I believe they are trying to indirectly tell me.

I'l still going to fight this. Sent in a reply yesterday, and have yet to hear back.
Here's my most recent response.

So, let me see if I understand this correctly.

You're saying that, even though I had cancelled the domain and the automatic renewal over a month before my due date, and that the domain had been removed entirely from my account (admin.1and1.com area), that cancellation was pushed back until September 27th, which would be one month after my domain was set to renew, basically forcing me to pay an extra year of service for a domain name that I had absolutely no reason to keep.
Basically, cancelling the domain and the automatic renewal did not, in any way, cancel the domain and the automatic renewal. Is that what you're trying to say?

Now, because you were unable to cancel my domain as requested, you're going to force me to pay for a domain domain of which I was under the impression was already cancelled.


Aside from the lack of ethics on your part, and the possible illegal nature of being unable to honor a valid and confirmed cancellation request, you have the audacity to try and force me to renew a domain that, if I understand correctly, will only be cancelled and unavailable for my use starting September 27th.

This isn't acceptable. I have other domains registered at 1and1, and I am seriously regretting my use of your services. This is unprofessional and unethical, and the fact that such a large and trusted provider such as 1and1 is denying me of my right to cancel a service well before it was scheduled to be automatically renewed is just a pure atrocity. This isn't acceptable in any way, and I will not pay for the outstanding balance, as quite simply, this invoice should never have been created.

Also, this part really confuses me.

It got renewed on 2013-09-27 prior to the cancellation date for the billing period 08/11/2013-08/11/2014

That's not exactly "prior" to when I cancelled the domain. In fact, that date hasn't even occurred yet, so unless I jumped through time, I don't get how they can claim it was a 'prior' cancellation date.

Maybe I just misunderstood?

 

[Sidular]

Tyler, people make mistakes. unfortunately some companies turn the mistakes into a corporate culture. This one is probably one of them. My advise to you is to be more relaxed on this. You'd not sue someone for making a mistake and renewing your domain name. Who'd be bothering oneself to work on a case like this. Leave the above mentioned web host (they are shameless overseller anyway), transfer the domain to any other company and think about how would you make some money out of it.

Honestly, I see no fault on my end. I cancelled well before the domain was set to renew. It's not my fault if they were unable to honor my request to cancel a service.

If anything, this is unethical. I see this as an abuse of corporate power, and would be more than willing to take them to court if something isn't settled.
Sure, it may just be a $15 domain name, but that honestly isn't the point here. It's about morals and standards. Cancelling a service should mean that the service is cancelled, not that it will probably get cancelled a month after you pay for it again. The whole point of cancelling is so I wouldn't have to pay for a service that I had no use of.

Their responses to me appear to have one focus, and that is to deny my right to cancel a service, and force me to pay the invoice.
I will not pay for something that I do not intend to use, especially when I had informed them of my intent to leave. Cancelling should be their confirmation that I had no intentions of paying.

Knowing 1and1, they'll probably take me to court well before I have the time to even hire a proper lawyer. (either that, or send me to a collections agency)
They're an unethical waste of time and money, and no sane individual should ever have to suffer through this kind of harsh bull****.

 

[Sidular]

Final Update;

Just got another email from 1and1.

Dear Ty Harvey (Cust: ID),

Thank you for contacting us.

Our apologies; we have set your domain name operationsidfin.com to be deleted immediately & refunded you the 14.99 you were charged for it. This credit should apply to your account within the next 1-2 weeks. We thank you in advance for your patience.

If you have any further questions do not hesitate to reply to this e-mail or contact us during office hours by phone at 1-877-300-8316 from 9am-5pm EST, Monday through Friday.

So, looks like everything has worked itself out. Shame that this incident has put me off of 1and1 forever.
I never liked them as a web host, but they always had fairly inexpensive domains. I had a major problem with them in the past, and they had even threatened to sue me. I figured it was just a fluke incident, a rarity and that it would never happen again.
Fast forward to today, which is roughly three or more years after the first incident, and 1and1 is still performing the same unethical bull.

They're buggy, broken, unethical, unprofessional and generally a hassle to deal with. I will *never* buy another domain name at 1and1 again, even though they offer fairly decent domain services. The fact that they are managed poorly has turned me off for good.

Goodbye 1and1, you just lost registrar status for 15 domains.
(also, this entire thing made me realize that I have a ton of domain names, most of which are going unused. Think I have like, 50 domains in total)

 

[Stream101]

I've used 1and1 in the past and have had nothing but bad luck with them. This was prior to me offering hosting and such (early 2000's).

Sorry to hear they are still at their tactics! Way to be persistant.

 

[ANMMark]

Tyler, glad this worked out for you. Since this is settled, a few words of advice...

I know things like this can be frustrating. However, always try to stay relaxed. Nothing is ever settled by getting too "worked up" over it.

Unfortunately, with a case like this, even though it's frustrating, no court would have even considered this case because it's $15.

I do think there was a major hiccup on their end, and that one email certainly confused me as well lol. I have no personal experience with 1and1 but I have to wonder how many people this happens to without question, and how much money is made from this "mistake"

 

[VMakerHOST]

Can you tell us how long yu with them?
as we all know Domains are register for yearly based, If you go with monthly then its there mistake, anyway remember one thing that domain is belong to you not 1and1 so you have rights to renew it or what ever you want

 

[ANMMark]

Well a domain does not always belong to the customer. It depends on the deal that was purchased and the terms of service for that deal unfortunately

 

[Sidular]

Can you tell us how long yu with them?
as we all know Domains are register for yearly based, If you go with monthly then its there mistake, anyway remember one thing that domain is belong to you not 1and1 so you have rights to renew it or what ever you want

The domain in question was registered for only a year, and I had cancelled the automatic renewal as well as the domain itself on June 27th, which was a little over a month before the domain was set to expire.
I was under the impression that cancelling a service before it was set to renew would cancel the service before it was set to renew, but apparently 1and1 thought otherwise.

I have technically been with 1and1 since 2007 / 2008 with a stray domain registration or hosting service. (hosting was short lived, though)
Up until they tried to sue me, 1and1 had been my main domain registrar.
A few years later, or more specifically in 2011, I registered a new domain with 1and1 during one of their discounts at the time. For the price, I felt that it was worth the risk.
My re-up of sorts went surprisingly well, and they even replied to my support tickets at somewhat regular intervals of 10 - 26 hours. (yes, that is actually a plus for them)

I still have a few domains with 1and1, and intend to transfer them over to my own services as soon as I can. I'm honestly in no real rush to do so, as those domains aren't set to expired until 2014. However, a part of me fears the transfer process, as considering my experiences with 1and1, I'm honestly doubtful that the domains will be transferred over properly, or even at all.

Don't get me wrong, 1and1 is a decent domain registrar. You just have to make sure to never cancel your services, or else all hell will break loose, and you're getting contacted by a shady collection agency.
But, if you intend to keep your domains til the end of all times, 1and1 is the best provider out there, and offer a fair amount of services for a low price. (specifically private registration, which other providers tend to charge for)

 

[Alex - A2 Hosting]

Final Update;

Just got another email from 1and1.



So, looks like everything has worked itself out. Shame that this incident has put me off of 1and1 forever.
I never liked them as a web host, but they always had fairly inexpensive domains. I had a major problem with them in the past, and they had even threatened to sue me. I figured it was just a fluke incident, a rarity and that it would never happen again.
Fast forward to today, which is roughly three or more years after the first incident, and 1and1 is still performing the same unethical bull.

They're buggy, broken, unethical, unprofessional and generally a hassle to deal with. I will *never* buy another domain name at 1and1 again, even though they offer fairly decent domain services. The fact that they are managed poorly has turned me off for good.

Goodbye 1and1, you just lost registrar status for 15 domains.
(also, this entire thing made me realize that I have a ton of domain names, most of which are going unused. Think I have like, 50 domains in total)

Glad to see everything worked out! .

What do you mean fairly inexpensive domains? At $15 per year that's at the tip top from what I've seen for normal domain registrars.

 

[Dedispec]

I had a similar case happen years ago, well before I even got into web hosting. Except mine was they accidentally lost my domain.

Regardless, this isn't a rant on my issue, I've found 1&1 is VERY difficult to work with when there are domain issues. If you haven't actually been charged, I honestly would recommend dropping it and not replying. Just make sure to keep all of that evidence just in case.

If you actually have been charged, and they refuse to refund you, then it might require legal attention.

 

[Sidular]

What do you mean fairly inexpensive domains? At $15 per year that's at the tip top from what I've seen for normal domain registrars.

Most domain providers charge extra for private registration services, whereas 1and1 offers this service free of charge.
Although their domain names are considered the "new industry standard" in regards to pricing, their major bonus is with the private registration service.

GoDaddy charges $10 extra per year for this. Even ResellerClub (domain reseller that most hosts use) is enforcing a toll for private registration services.

I had a similar case happen years ago, well before I even got into web hosting. Except mine was they accidentally lost my domain.

Regardless, this isn't a rant on my issue, I've found 1&1 is VERY difficult to work with when there are domain issues. If you haven't actually been charged, I honestly would recommend dropping it and not replying. Just make sure to keep all of that evidence just in case.

If you actually have been charged, and they refuse to refund you, then it might require legal attention.

They refused to refund me at first, but I have since gotten a full refund. Everything has been resolved.

 

[cpoalmighty]

I think they are apart of the BBB so just file a complaint there and let them handle it. No need to go over to the courts for a domain fee

 

[Alex - A2 Hosting]

I think they are apart of the BBB so just file a complaint there and let them handle it. No need to go over to the courts for a domain fee

Read the thread, its been resolved. He didn't want to go to court because of the $15 but for principle.

 

[Dedispec]

Most domain providers charge extra for private registration services, whereas 1and1 offers this service free of charge.
Although their domain names are considered the "new industry standard" in regards to pricing, their major bonus is with the private registration service.

GoDaddy charges $10 extra per year for this. Even ResellerClub (domain reseller that most hosts use) is enforcing a toll for private registration services.




They refused to refund me at first, but I have since gotten a full refund. Everything has been resolved.

That was my fault, was reading from my phone so I didn't see you said that already

Sorry about that, glad it got worked out though.

 

[blazews]

Finally have you got payment refund????

 

[HN-Alejo]

Is suing them over $15 worth your time? Do you value your time at $2/hour? You could easily spend 8 hours with a lawyer (who also needs to be paid) getting an argument together. The principle thing is nice, but you have too much time on your hands if it is that much of a priority.

Update - I re-read the thread. I am glad that it's been sorted, but I really wouldn't consider a suit for this.

 

[Alex - A2 Hosting]

Is suing them over $15 worth your time? Do you value your time at $2/hour? You could easily spend 8 hours with a lawyer (who also needs to be paid) getting an argument together. The principle thing is nice, but you have too much time on your hands if it is that much of a priority.

Update - I re-read the thread. I am glad that it's been sorted, but I really wouldn't consider a suit for this.

Re-read the thread again. He wasn't going to court over $15. And I don't think this would have gone to court anyway .