WHMCS: How do you handle free domains for transfers?

[bluesteam]

Hey,

I'm hoping I will get more response from the other hosting forums I posted this on.

As you know, WHMCS allows for a free domain together with a hosting package. In order for WHMCS to provide a free domain together with the hosting package, the anniversary dates of the domain and the hosting package needs to be the same.

This is to prevent the hosting company incurring an unnecessary cost of renewing the clients free domain at the hosting companies cost when the client might cancel the hosting space on it's future due-date

The "same date anniversary" works just fine for new registrations but the problem comes in with Domain Transfers. If the domain was created at a different host 1 January but the client left that hosting company and signed up with a new hosting company on 1 June, and transferred the domain as well, then the anniversary date is carried along with that domain. So when the script runs to sync the domains expiry dates with the registrar, it now does not match up with the hosting package that is set on 1 June.

Due to the above, WHMCS does not recognise this scenario and the domain is now renewed on 1 January by WHMCS and come 1 June, the client cancels...

I would just like to know how everyone else handles this problem?

Thanks
Wolvy

 

[easyhostmedia]

well if its a domain transfer then its not a free domain with a hosting package, so matching up the dates should not matter.
WHMCS and the free domain with hosting is set up only if you provide a free domain registration with a hosting package and you have these 2 options

1) Offer a free domain registration only (renew as normal)
2) Offer a free domain registration and free renewal (if product is renewed)

 

[ughosting]

Usually when you transfer in you add an extra year to the domain. It costs the same as registering a domain.

So having said that, their yearly hosting will have expired before the domain needs renewing.

So you will know by the time that the domain needs renewing whether the customer has renewed their hosting or not.

 

[HostLeet]

Usually when you transfer in you add an extra year to the domain. It costs the same as registering a domain.

So having said that, their yearly hosting will have expired before the domain needs renewing.

So you will know by the time that the domain needs renewing whether the customer has renewed their hosting or not.

Exactly. When you transfer a domain name for a client it will also be renewed for another year from the date of the transfer, so the hosting plan and domain should be very close to each other's dates, if not the same.

You can also set the due date for the domain manually via WHMCS, even if the expiry date is different. :thumbup:

 

[bluesteam]

1) Offer a free domain registration only (renew as normal)

Renew or Transfer? Because you can't set the difference on WHMCS. Its either free domain or not. It doesn't distinguish between new registrations and transfers/renewals.

Usually when you transfer in you add an extra year to the domain.

The operative word being "Usually". In my country, the domain transfer does not add another year. the expiry date stays the same. Hence the problem.

So having said that, their yearly hosting will have expired before the domain needs renewing.

Exactly. When you transfer a domain name for a client it will also be renewed for another year from the date of the transfer, so the hosting plan and domain should be very close to each other's dates, if not the same.

Not entirely true. In your scenario the hosting expires before the domain. But take this scenario:

• I register a domain with a host on 1 January 2010 and stay with them for a number of years. The domain's expiry is on 1 January right?
• Now I transfer to a new host on 1 June in 2013. The domain expiry is still 1 January but my hosting is 1 June. This means that the domain will always need to be renewed with the registrar on 1 January and the hosting will always be on 1 June AFTER the domain registration.
• So in this case I will have paid for a renewal in January 2014 and come June 2014, the client cancels and no longer wants the domain. now I have paid for a domain that I did not need t pay for.

So you can see that this is a problem now. That's why the dates have to be the same and that's why WHMCS team did it that way but it is perfect for new registrations but flawed for renewals and transfers.

You can also set the due date for the domain manually via WHMCS, even if the expiry date is different. :thumbup:

This would be pointless as it defeats the purpose. the purpose is to make sure you don't pay for a domain the client doesn't want. Changing the due date does not fix that.

 

[Collabora]

Assuming annual hosting, I don't see the issue here. By setting the free domain, domain registration and the hosting appear on the same invoice. The domain registration is $0.00. Customer must pay the total invoice to get the free registration. A year later, the same kind of invoice is generated and when that is paid the domain is renewed. Thus, using the setting you refer to, the only way they can get the free domain is to pay a hosting invoice. Keep in mind that a domain can be renewed at any time, right?

Anyway, that's the way I understand it. I don't have any experience with it,

 

[easyhostmedia]

Renew or Transfer? Because you can't set the difference on WHMCS. Its either free domain or not. It doesn't distinguish between new registrations and transfers/renewals.

option 1 i mentioned is very clear

1) Offer a free domain registration only (renew as normal)

a FREE domain REGISTRATION only and then on renewal it is renewed as normal so you give the domain free for the first year and then they pay for renewals using option 1

option 2 give free domain registrations and future renewals free as long as they have hosting with you. Also if they register a free domain with any of our hosting packages then we will lock the domain so it cannot be moved to another host, this stops someone ordering hosting in order just to get a free domain and then cancel hosting and then move the domain.

 

[bluesteam]

option 1 i mentioned is very clear

a FREE domain REGISTRATION only and then on renewal it is renewed as normal so you give the domain free for the first year and then they pay for renewals using option 1

option 2 give free domain registrations and future renewals free as long as they have hosting with you. Also if they register a free domain with any of our hosting packages then we will lock the domain so it cannot be moved to another host, this stops someone ordering hosting in order just to get a free domain and then cancel hosting and then move the domain.

I'm sory but I can't put it in better words than simply saying "You are incorrect"

This is copied DIRECTLY from WHMCS:

Offer a free domain registration/transfer only (renew as normal)
Offer a free domain registration/transfer and free renewal (if product is renewed)

Registration and transfer is not distinguishable. WHMCS forces you for both. You cannot choose between a free registration only and a free transfer only. It's both and nothing else...

We only offer free domains with an annual signup. Not monthly. So we won't need to lock the domain in our scenario.

The bottom line from all the above is that because our registrar does not set the expiry date 12 months ahead on transfers, we have to take the risk of paying for a domain that might never be used again.

 

[easyhostmedia]

I'm sory but I can't put it in better words than simply saying "You are incorrect"

This is copied DIRECTLY from WHMCS:



Registration and transfer is not distinguishable. WHMCS forces you for both. You cannot choose between a free registration only and a free transfer only. It's both and nothing else...

We only offer free domains with an annual signup. Not monthly. So we won't need to lock the domain in our scenario.

The bottom line from all the above is that because our registrar does not set the expiry date 12 months ahead on transfers, we have to take the risk of paying for a domain that might never be used again.

i copied from my old dev install in error, but you can chose it either a free registration or free transfer and you can chose the payment term and TLD to offer these with. This is applied to the hosting invoice so will be set the same as the hosting date.

 

[bluesteam]

...but you can chose it either a free registration or free transfer ...

You keep saying you can....please elaborate EXACTLY how to distinguish this during a signup??

 

[easyhostmedia]

You keep saying you can....please elaborate EXACTLY how to distinguish this during a signup??

in your WHMCS admin area under setup > general settings > domains make sure you have all Domain Registration Options checked

Allow clients to register domains with you
Allow clients to transfer a domain to you
Allow clients to use their own domain

this distinguishes what the system does regarding domains

 

[bluesteam]

Ok, you have missed the point. We are talking about free domain name registrations or transfers. The feature is built to force you to apply the free domain with the registration and transfer. Not either or.

 

[easyhostmedia]

Ok, you have missed the point. We are talking about free domain name registrations or transfers. The feature is built to force you to apply the free domain with the registration and transfer. Not either or.

no you are missing the point

if you have the 'Offer a free domain registration/transfer only (renew as normal)' set with annual hosting for a .com TLD

then in your admin area you have

Allow clients to register domains with you
Allow clients to transfer a domain to you

checked, then when someone orders annual hosting with a .com domain to register or transfer to you, they enter the domain as normal and then when they come to pay the invoice then the domain part will show as $0.00

 

[Collabora]

As you know, WHMCS allows for a free domain together with a hosting package. In order for WHMCS to provide a free domain together with the hosting package, the anniversary dates of the domain and the hosting package needs to be the same.

This is to prevent the hosting company incurring an unnecessary cost of renewing the clients free domain at the hosting companies cost when the client might cancel the hosting space on it's future due-date

The "same date anniversary" works just fine for new registrations but the problem comes in with Domain Transfers. If the domain was created at a different host 1 January but the client left that hosting company and signed up with a new hosting company on 1 June, and transferred the domain as well, then the anniversary date is carried along with that domain. So when the script runs to sync the domains expiry dates with the registrar, it now does not match up with the hosting package that is set on 1 June.

Due to the above, WHMCS does not recognise this scenario and the domain is now renewed on 1 January by WHMCS and come 1 June, the client cancels...

I would just like to know how everyone else handles this problem?

Thanks
Wolvy

It seems you are unnecessarily hung up on the term "anniversary date." Instead focus on "next due date." New registrations and transfers are handled the same. Both the domain registration/transfer and hosting are invoiced together on the next due date. If you are configured for free domain with hosting the domain reg/transfer line will be $0.00. It will continue to be $0.00 as long as invoice is paid.

If hosting is cancelled, for the next due date invoice will show the regular price for domain registration/transfer. Customer will now be required to pay for domain registration/transfer. Note that this works for monthly as well annual contracts.

You should verify these settings

• Setup > Automation Settings > Invoice Generation > Advanced Settings > Domain Reminder Settings is left blank.
• The separate Invoices option on the client's Profile tab is unticked.

 

[bluesteam]

You guys have been great in the response! I am very grateful for the replies and the discussion that has been shared here. I do feel though that I am probably not communicating my point clearly enough for everyone to understand my dilemma. I do not know how else to explain it other than probably having a personal conversation to demonstrate the issue.

Thanks again for all the replies...this is a FANTASTIC community!

 

[node24x7]

I think I have got your point but it seems your maths is not correct. I will try and explain with an example assuming annual payments only.
Scenario
- Client has domain registered on 1 Jan, 2012 with host xyz.
- Client transfers to you on 1 Jun, 2012.
- Client pays for annual hosting applicable upto 1 Jun, 2013
- You renew Client domain from 1 Jan, 2013 to 31 Dec, 2013
- Client fails to renew his package on 1 Jun, 2013.
- You feel you paid for the domain registration between 1 Jun, 2013 to 31 Dec, 2013 extra.

Result You are not at any loss.

Mathematical Explanation When client transferred to you he came with 7 months validity on his domain. When he leaves you he leaves with the same 7 months extra. No loss/no gain.

Financial Explanation Irrespective of whether client transferred on date of registration or mid way, you are paying the registrar only one year's fees. Therefore, it doesn't matter whether client gets some extra months validity or not.

In case of monthly billing, there will be a problem and you may need to lock down the domain and ask the client to pay the annual fees before releasing the domain.

 

[bluesteam]

Thanks for your reply.

I don't agree that I am not out-of-pocket because that 7months of validity you are referring to has nothing to do with my business as that registration and profits were consumed by the previous host.

On my system, it is seen as a newly registered client and on WHMCS, the date starts from date of registration which in your scenario would be 1 June. When transferring your domain to a different host(lets say TuCows and Godaddy), the expiry date is renewed for another 12months. With my registrar, the date of expiry NEVER changes. It is static no matter how many times you transfer the domain in a year.

Now, the problem comes in like this. After registering with me, during 1 June 2012 through to 31 December 2012, the client might decide he no longer wants to continue with the domain name because maybe his business went belly-up or whatever. But he doesn't have to tell me this. Now, when 1 Jan 2013 comes around, I automatically renew the domain name because it needs to be renewd. But unknowingly, I don't actually need to because he isn't going to renew on 1 June 2013 anyway...

So yes, I am out of pocket unnecessarily.

 

[easyhostmedia]

Thanks for your reply.

I don't agree that I am not out-of-pocket because that 7months of validity you are referring to has nothing to do with my business as that registration and profits were consumed by the previous host.

On my system, it is seen as a newly registered client and on WHMCS, the date starts from date of registration which in your scenario would be 1 June. When transferring your domain to a different host(lets say TuCows and Godaddy), the expiry date is renewed for another 12months. With my registrar, the date of expiry NEVER changes. It is static no matter how many times you transfer the domain in a year.

Now, the problem comes in like this. After registering with me, during 1 June 2012 through to 31 December 2012, the client might decide he no longer wants to continue with the domain name because maybe his business went belly-up or whatever. But he doesn't have to tell me this. Now, when 1 Jan 2013 comes around, I automatically renew the domain name because it needs to be renewd. But unknowingly, I don't actually need to because he isn't going to renew on 1 June 2013 anyway...

So yes, I am out of pocket unnecessarily.

in transferring any domain if using WHMCS, CE, direct with namecheap, 123-reg or any other what it does is add a further year onto whatever is left, so in the senario of the 7 months and then transfer to you then the domains till has them 7 months and then a further year with you.
We use WHMCS and Resellerclub for our domain services. If we provide a free domain reg or transfer then once this is reg or transferred to use they cant move the domain for 60 days anyway, but we will always lock the domain from our resellerclub admin area, so that their is no way that domain can be moved, but we just give free domains on annual plans or high priced monthly plans where we know that the first months hosting charge will cover the cost of the domain, but
if the client wants to leave before the 12 months then they are given a choice to pay the full annual cost of the domain and then we unlock it so they can move it or they waive all rights to the domain then we change the details to us and then place the domain for sale

 

[Collabora]

I think I have got your point but it seems your maths is not correct. I will try and explain with an example assuming annual payments only.
Scenario
- Client has domain registered on 1 Jan, 2012 with host xyz.
- Client transfers to you on 1 Jun, 2012.
- Client pays for annual hosting applicable upto 1 Jun, 2013
- You renew Client domain from 1 Jan, 2013 to 31 Dec, 2013
- Client fails to renew his package on 1 Jun, 2013.
- You feel you paid for the domain registration between 1 Jun, 2013 to 31 Dec, 2013 extra.

In your scenario, how are you (the host) renewing the domain? No hosting is purchased at this time, and there is no client order, right? The domain already has at least the time 6/1/12 to 6/1/13 before expiry provided during initial hosting order and transfer. No?

Here is my scenario

-whmcs is configured properly for free domain reg/transfer
- 1yr hosting = $50, domain reg = $10.00
- client orders 1 yr hosting with free domain reg/transfer
- Client is invoiced $50.00 + $0.00 = $50.00
- 3 months later client cancels.

Or

- One year later on Next Due Date (defined in whmcs) client cancels hosting
- Invoice is generated for domain renewal = $10.00

 

[bluesteam]

so in the senario of the 7 months and then transfer to you then the domains till has them 7 months and then a further year with you...

With normal registrars this would solve my problem but as I mentioned before, my local registrar for my countries TLD does not do it like that. If a domain is registered on a specific date, that is the expiry date for that domains life span forever! It will never have another 12months added to it unless when the times comes for renewal.