Bad designers

shockym

shockym

New member
I gotta rant this. I had to contact a designer this week for a client of mine who has a horrid site that was done by another designer(half #%%ed) and left hanging for a few months. Why do people do this? Now its a mess I do not mind cleaning up (new client, etc.) but seriously do people not think about what they are telling "their clients" before they take the job? This guy spent a few thousand on a wonderful idea for a site and just got shafted.
 
I am not sure if it was an over demanding client or what. Its very odd but since I only know bits and pieces of the story its hard to judge, but if that were me I would be not nearly as nice as this guy is. Sure there are some lazy designers out there, but taking full payment for a job (which should have been in escrow or something) and then just bolting, not even contacting the person back) thats just really lame.
 
You don't say if this person has the designer's contact information. If they haven't been able to get a satisfactory response, they do have the option to contact their state's consumer action division...and they should. They will point the client to resources that can help figure out the problems and resolve them equably.

It may be that this client was overly demanding, and/or did go outside the written and agreed-upon contract. However, it may be that the designer just blew the client off for some other reason. (And it could be that the designer is hospitalized...but they should have *some* kind of business contact who could have explained that to any of their clients.) There could always be an additional option - like you said, you (and we) don't know all the facts. But if the client was spending money for a service and isn't satisfied with the service, then either the scope and extent of said service was not clearly communicated to the client, or the designer still has some work to do.

I have found, only in my own personal experience, that many people may have the skills or talent, but lack stick-tuitiveness. A friend of mine would utterly starve if they were to try and live off of their (admittedly good) freelance web design and graphic design capabilities. Unless there's a hard-and-fast deadline and a supervisor pushing them, they don't get a job done. That's no especial sin...but trying to be their own boss, taking other peoples' money for providing a service, and then not providing that service properly is pretty wretched.

Your friend (the client) is not without resources. They should absolutely feel free to make use of them. I don't advocate spending $10,000 to recover $3000, for example; but there are ways to get someone to act responsibly if they indeed are acting irresponsibly. (They might also find out that they did indeed expect something other than what was agreed to in writing - and it would be educational for them to learn if that was the case, and could save them from making other stress-causing decisions.)
 
I know that there are always three sides to the truth, in this case the client, the host/design team and the real truth. From all I have been told (without seeing phsyical proof) there was a contract and the work was laid out in the order needed complete with all T's crossed and I's dotted, but you are right that is only part of this.

To me, if its a host/design company there should be some type of support system in place, but the client has stated they have tried to call and email with no reply in over 4 weeks, which is why they are worried now all the time wasted is going to hurt his business.

Its always sad to see yes, but sometimes there are those out there who say they are designers but sometimes bail. The only other thing I know about the place is that they are located somewhere in Canada.
 
Gah...not good.

Send a certified letter to them (so that you start to establish a legal physical paper trail), and copy..eh, let me think...I don't know what the Canadian equivalent of the BBB or consumer protection agency is.

Also, contact the bank and tell them that there may be a problem with the check/charge because of undelivered work. They may not be able to reverse things at this point, but...one never knows.

Just for your client's information, they should never pay 100% of costs up front for services. Industry standard for many physical contractors (builders, decorative painters, et cetera) and many designers/developers I know is 1/3 up front, 1/3 at some milestone (delivery of first proofs-of-concept, sometimes), and the remaining 1/3 when the job is finished satisfactorily. Smart contractors will build in a way to charge clients extra if the client changes their minds and wants additional stuff done; but that 1/3 start-off gives the contractor some assurance of payment, and gives the client some assurance that they're not going to lose all that money and never see anything come of it.

Good luck to the client. If there's a contract, that's a legal document. There should be a way to enforce the terms of that document, and get their money back if no service (and no contact) is forthcoming. Four weeks is absurdly long to go without acknowledging a clients' attempts to communicate.
 
I've picked up countless clients from "bad designers". In most cases they promise the world and more, but when it comes to actually getting something done, they get lazy.

My biggest issue is that there's many times when someone will pay $2-3K for a website like this: http://www.wasatchcomputers.net/ and when they finally get to me I charge them $200-300 for an imaculate design.

This will always be a problem. It's just always best for people to go with a reputable company/indevidual.
 
I wanted to comment on something Lesli stated...

Lesli said:
(And it could be that the designer is hospitalized...but they should have *some* kind of business contact who could have explained that to any of their clients.)
Click to expand...

I would agree with this under normal circumstances. However, if he was dealing with a freelancer, freelancers don't usually have the affordability to have a second hand to call.

I was kinda in this situation when designing a website previously. I was so sick that I could barely move, and within a day the client was calling my house, vulgar on the phone (for my entire family to hear), what would have happened if something serious would have happened to me, and my family would have been grieving?

I'm not saying that the designer is right, or the client is right. However, I think people should start realizing that just because you work over the Internet, does not change the fact that this is still "real life". Things happen to people in their real life, that affect their ability to function online.

The speed of the Internet has caused people to expect things instantly. The truth is though someone they fail to realize that there is a human on the other end that has to do the work, not a robot, and humans are vulnerable to....life.
 
ANMMark said:
I wanted to comment on something Lesli stated...



I would agree with this under normal circumstances. However, if he was dealing with a freelancer, freelancers don't usually have the affordability to have a second hand to call.

I was kinda in this situation when designing a website previously. I was so sick that I could barely move, and within a day the client was calling my house, vulgar on the phone (for my entire family to hear), what would have happened if something serious would have happened to me, and my family would have been grieving?

I'm not saying that the designer is right, or the client is right. However, I think people should start realizing that just because you work over the Internet, does not change the fact that this is still "real life". Things happen to people in their real life, that affect their ability to function online.

The speed of the Internet has caused people to expect things instantly. The truth is though someone they fail to realize that there is a human on the other end that has to do the work, not a robot, and humans are vulnerable to....life.
Click to expand...

I agree. Things happen. But I'm weary of "excuses" because I swear I've heard them all. I have friends whos grandmother died 5+ times in school:uhh:. Same idea...
 
well obviously. I've had that situation too.

A few years back, I was unable to finish work because it took me a long time to heal from my grandmother passing (she was like a mother to me), and a close friend died from stomach cancer. i slowly started getting back to normal when two years later, my best friend was murdered. No one gave me the benefit of the doubt (a few did i take that back), but a majority of clients were very mean about it.

The thing is, it really depends on the knowledge you have of the designer. The reality is that we're all human, and can stand a little compassion and understanding, even online. Sometimes things, as far out there as they sound, are possible.

For example, I have 3 grandmothers, two have passed, and one has not.
 
ANMMark said:
well obviously. I've had that situation too.

A few years back, I was unable to finish work because it took me a long time to heal from my grandmother passing (she was like a mother to me), and a close friend died from stomach cancer. i slowly started getting back to normal when two years later, my best friend was murdered. No one gave me the benefit of the doubt (a few did i take that back), but a majority of clients were very mean about it.

The thing is, it really depends on the knowledge you have of the designer. The reality is that we're all human, and can stand a little compassion and understanding, even online. Sometimes things, as far out there as they sound, are possible.

For example, I have 3 grandmothers, two have passed, and one has not.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying things don't happen. BTW, sorry to hear about your losses..
I do understand what you're saying though. There's been a time or 2 when I've had to deal with very tragic personal circumstances and unfortunately had to put many development projects on hold. Some clients understood and stuck it out with me, others took refunds and wrote bad reviews. That's just what happens when you're a freelancer.

If you're laying in a hospital bed it's hardly required to call every client and explain the whole situation. I once had the wife setup a auto responder when I was out a week with the flu. You do your best, but health comes before business.
 
ANMMark said:
I wanted to comment on something Lesli stated...

I would agree with this under normal circumstances. However, if he was dealing with a freelancer, freelancers don't usually have the affordability to have a second hand to call.

I was kinda in this situation when designing a website previously. I was so sick that I could barely move, and within a day the client was calling my house, vulgar on the phone (for my entire family to hear), what would have happened if something serious would have happened to me, and my family would have been grieving?

I'm not saying that the designer is right, or the client is right. However, I think people should start realizing that just because you work over the Internet, does not change the fact that this is still "real life". Things happen to people in their real life, that affect their ability to function online.

The speed of the Internet has caused people to expect things instantly. The truth is though someone they fail to realize that there is a human on the other end that has to do the work, not a robot, and humans are vulnerable to....life.
Click to expand...

Even if you're a freelancer and thus working completely on your own, it might be possible to set up a "phone tree" for the true emergencies that will keep you out of commission for more than 24 hours - even if it's a friend of yours or a family member who knows nothing about web design. You just need to define when someone else will need to send out this email, to whom they'll send it out. Having a quick, "canned" text message can sometimes be enough to let people know that while there may be delays, they aren't being left hanging.

Freelancers can't set up someone to take over their business for two or three days if they're temporarily put out of action by a nasty case of the flu. But if they're incapacitated - either their wrist is broken, or their back goes out, or - knock on wood - they're hit by a bus, someone should be able to call their current client list and advise them all that there will be delays (or, in the latter case, that they need to make alternate arrangements.) Sure, the freelancer will get the IMPS (ill-mannered persons) who don't care what happened, they're just going to vent and lose their tops and be unreasonable. But there will also be those clients who hear of the delays, appreciate the notice, and can then make an informed decision: wait for this freelancer to be available and able to work on the project, or take their project elsewhere.
 
shockym said:
I gotta rant this. I had to contact a designer this week for a client of mine who has a horrid site that was done by another designer(half #%%ed) and left hanging for a few months. Why do people do this? Now its a mess I do not mind cleaning up (new client, etc.) but seriously do people not think about what they are telling "their clients" before they take the job? This guy spent a few thousand on a wonderful idea for a site and just got shafted.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear this, but it happens all too frequently, and that's a shame. Without knowing more than bits and pieces, we can only speculate on the agreement between your friend and the original designer. Best to have deadlines in place, and not pay everything upfront.
 
In the end it is the 'bad designers' that will bite the dust, especially in these tough economic times.

Word of mouth is a powerful tool in all forms. It can make or break a company. People should think twice about shafting clients... they're only going to go away and generate negative reviews. Reviews which can be posted all over the net.

People trust friends over sales pitches, and always will.
 
In the end it is the 'bad designers' that will bite the dust, especially in these tough economic times.
Click to expand...
You would certainly hope so, but unfortunately, there will always be more to take their place. Best to be diligent in every business venture when times are tough. The scammers seem to multiply like roaches.
 
shockym said:
I gotta rant this. I had to contact a designer this week for a client of mine who has a horrid site that was done by another designer(half #%%ed) and left hanging for a few months. Why do people do this? Now its a mess I do not mind cleaning up (new client, etc.) but seriously do people not think about what they are telling "their clients" before they take the job? This guy spent a few thousand on a wonderful idea for a site and just got shafted.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean. I'm a web designer and developer myself and I have clients that come to me and tell me horrible stories about how they have been treated. I'm not sure whatever happened to, "our word is our bond?" I like to think when I give someone my word its better then any contract. Speaking of contract didn't your client have a contract that would hold the designer responsible? But, I'm sure if it was the designers contract there was loopholes.

Its a ripple effect. If you look at the situation you just addressed you and your client know first hand what happened. And now the great people of HostingDiscussion know. Figure that client told there family and you also told your family. Figure thats 20 people that found out about what happened. Those 20 people tell another 20 and so on and so on. If the web design company can not figure out that upsetting one person can mean upsetting 20+ then they will not last long. The world is big I wont argue with that but, at the same time the world is small. There bad reputation will spread FAST and before you know it they are a thing of the past. I'm not saying one person could make a company go belly up but, if they will do this to one person you have to figure they will do it to others. I wish you and your client the best of luck.
 
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